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It's not about living to be 150. It's, it's about the last years of your life, so that when you're 70, 80, you're not in a nursing home at 75. Your biggest asset to your company is your energy and your vitality. You don't wanna fix the car after it's broken. You wanna actually maintain it as you're going so that when you do get into your golden years, you will be healthy and happy because you started younger. Innovation is always scary and new. I say take the leap. Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels from zero to over $50 billion so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level three, which sits in the 3 to $10 million bracket, the operator stage. At this level, revenue is consistent and the team is growing, but you're no longer just building a business. You're building leadership. The challenges? Delegating real ownership, installing managers, and making the psychological shift from founder operator to CEO. The goal? Step out of the bottleneck and build a leadership layer that scales beyond you Welcome to The Business Game. I'm Steve Plummer. Be sure to like and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. Today we're joined by Timmy Stump, a healthcare executive and commercial leader specializing in longevity and regenerative medicine. She's the chief commercial officer of Vesalius Longevity Labs, where she helped build the company from the ground up, from pharmacy channels and a provider ordering platform to an elite clinic in Miami. Before that, she served as president of Neo7 Bioscience. Today we're diving into what longevity medicine really is, how luxury finds the first version of new medicine, and what it takes to build a commercial engine from zero in a category moving faster than its infrastructure. So let's dive in with Timmy Stump. Timmy, welcome to The Business Game. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me. All right. Fantastic. So let's start off, I- I'm gonna go right to the pointy end at, at the moment, Timmy. So longevity medicine, it can be written off as sort of sci-fi fantasy, the playground of some crazy billionaires or tinfoil hat people. So um, how untrue are those myths? Can we start there, please? Yeah, absolutely, and I think that that's very true. It is written off as sci-fi. You see a lot of podcasts and, and broadcasts that are all about longevity and how it's only for the elite, but it's really, it's not about living to be 150, it's, it's about the last years of your life. It's about ma- maximizing and optimizing your health in your 40s and 50s and 60s even- Yeah when you're the most productive in your life, so that when you're 70 and 80, you're not in a nursing home at 75. You've got cognitive ability at, you know, at, at 80. You're strong and healthy at 70. So I think that there's really a myth there that needs to be busted because it's really It's, it's all about happy and healthy and optimization. Okay, so on that then, a- another, I guess, pointed question. So is it only something that's relevant to, like, older girls and older guys, or should younger entrepreneurs and leaders be paying attention as well? Absolutely. So I think that the, the younger that you start, and so you- what you're really doing is correcting faulty signaling pathways, you're optimizing different pathways from your body. These amino acids live within your body, and peptides, that's peptides alone. Yep. Uh, these are things that are naturally occurring, and so starting younger is actually probably better. So you wanna... You don't wanna fix it far after it's broken. Yeah. You wanna actually maintain it as you're going so that when you do get into your older, your golden years, which I think are the best years of our lives, you will be healthy and happy because you started younger. It's kind of like when they say getting aesthetics sooner in your life before you need it is better. Kind of the same idea. Yeah. Okay, so can you tell us then what peptides are, what's longevity medicine so our, our viewers are all on the same page? So peptides are naturally occurring amino acids. Um, they are the building blocks of proteins, so that's really what they are. So they're, they're designed to optimize what's already happening in your body- Right or really telling your body something maybe it forgot to do. So that's really what peptides are all about, naturally occurring, um... And then longevity is really about, like I said, it's about really living great years, not just being satisfied with going through perimenopausal if you're a woman or going through fluctuations in weight and, and maybe in your, your body makeup or dif- your gut health, your, your stress levels. So longevity is all about optimization. I'm gonna say that probably 20 times- Yeah, yeah in this podcast. And that's what it's about. Yeah, okay, and I, I really like that analogy, right, of not fixing, but helping or addressing the car before it breaks down because, you know, when... And especially when you're younger, right, you're just kinda carefree. You don't really think about that sort of stuff. It's when you get to a certain age, you think, "Oh, you know, there's an ache and a pain there," but what you're saying makes perfect sense. If you're starting earlier, those, oh, oh, aches and pains and, and health issues don't necessarily come up, you know, come up as, as much. And also, I think that optimization makes you a better business leader, a, a, a better person in the world and so forth, so it's a, it's a fascinating field of medicine, so I'm really looking forward to, um, to our discussion today. So can we talk a little bit then about, um, building Vesalius from the ground up? So you said yes- From a zero start, you know, no team, no playbook, no industry norms, technology and everything going all over the place. I mean, one, are you crazy for jumping into that? So I spent about 20... Yeah, I spent 25 years in pharmaceuticals and jumped into integrative medicine probably six years ago. Right. And I worked in the tech side, and then I worked on the lab side, and I saw a lot of issues with how these peptides were being... Just the experience, the customer experience, from a doctor's experience, a patient's experience. And so when I was recruited by the founders, they had a vision. We had a whiteboard. There were probably four of us, and we really kind of just built this out from scratch, and it was exciting and new, and I didn't really know exactly what I was doing- Yeah but I knew what bad looked like, and I think that's the really the best, the most important part about business is knowing what bad looks like. Yeah. If you know what bad looks like, you could correct that, and I knew what good could be. We hadn't seen it yet in the industry. We had a lot of competition that wasn't quite achieving those goals. But knowing what our customers didn't want and then kind of knowing what they might think they wanted. This is a totally different industry. I mean, there were, there were some labs out there doing it, but no one was really building an entire company surrounding longevity. Mm. So that is, that's, so I dove in headfirst, um, and Found the confidence as I, as I made it. Yeah. Uh, it, it's such an interesting, um, journey to start with, but also that, I mean, startups are very messy and very chaotic. So can you walk us through what the first 90 days looked like? So the first 90 days, you're really listening to your audience, you're looking at the competition. Those are really important. It's not just the patients, it's the doctors, it's, it's the pharmacies that are involved, the labs that are involved. Really looking at what the landscape looks like, what do people need? That that's... You're fil- you're fulfilling, every business is about fulfilling an unmet need. And then you're looking at, okay, we've got this down, how do we build it? So you're looking at your supply chain, and you're looking at your platforms to, to make it easy to order. Um, really looking at all the needs you gathered and building that out. And that's your capita- your supply chain and everything is ironed out, then you're really focusing on one channel, and that one channel for us was business to doctor. It wasn't directly to patients- Right it wasn't any other avenue. It was the path of least resistance and the path that got us to revenue the fastest so that we could then start to build out other channels. So that first 90 days of really just building that, building the brand. There's so many different elements to building a company. So that's kind of where we started, um, and now we're two years in, way past the 90-day mark. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. One of the things, uh, business owners, entrepreneurs, they're, they're asked to make decisions all the time. So I, I'm, I'm wondering, you know, what gave you the confidence to bet on something that didn't exist? What was that decision like for you? So I, I think that, uh, anytime there's something that doesn't exist and there's no one that has the experience on paper, so I- it's really pulling from my pharmaceutical experience and having- Mm worked at Pe- I... before in integrative medicines. Yeah. I worked in so many different spaces. I had worked in the CBD market, I'd worked in the lab space, the pharmacy space, the pharmaceutical manufacturing space. And so pulling that all together and knowing that this is really just another pharma company, if you think about it. If you think about the GLP-1s and all the other products, those are, those, those, uh- Wegovy and all the different GLP-1s, those are actually pharmaceuticals that are sold to pharmaceutical companies that are also peptides. There's a lot of peptides that are actually on the market, so I had to kind of reach back and say, "This is just another pharma company." Yeah. I know it's a different space, but treat it like a pharma company, which, which is why we're so compliant and so about quality and compliance because from the very beginning, even before they were considered pharmaceuticals, we considered ourselves a pharmaceutical company. We were very compliant about what we sold, when we sold it, and how we sold it. So that's where I got the con- just from a, a long legacy of, of very regulated industries like the pharmaceutical industry. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I guess the, the, the, a highly regulated industry can be challenging. Have... Um, given your experience, I'm as- I'm assuming that's perhaps less so, especially in the early stages, 'cause you kind of knew the landscape you were coming into. Is that a fair comment? Yeah, that's a fair comment. Yeah. It's a, it's a, an interesting landscape. Um- Yeah it's very highly regulated. It wasn't highly regulated when it started. It was more like a gray market. Mm-hmm. We've moved that market completely into the, the clear white area from this... 'Cause there's a lot of gray area companies out there- Yeah uh, that are selling peptides in not the most compliant way. So we've really... I think that we're a, at a point where we're gonna transform this industry into a very highly compliant industry where we're, or company, where we're actually helping to create policy and create the boundaries that we have for, for sales of peptides. Yeah. Okay, let's talk about building a business and, and what you've done in the last couple of years because, um, uh, you have been going for around about two years and, um, y- you had pharmacy channels, you've got a provider ordering platform, you've got a skincare collaboration, and even an elite clinic running in Miami. And, uh, I guess most operators would have trouble executing one of those within two years. So how did you sequence the build of all of that, and was there something that nearly derailed it? Yeah. So I think sequencing is what it's all about. You don't wanna boil the ocean right out the gate. You need to, to figure out your path of least resistance the most... I wouldn't say the most The minimum viable product, I would say the most valuable product. Putting a spin on those words, you really want to go out the gate with a channel that's going to make the biggest impact. And so what we did was we sequenced the business to, to doctor model, built that trust. It's all about trust, and once people have trust in our brand, it's a lot easier for them to believe the next brand that you launch. And then we picked the right partners. So the next, our partner was MuCell Innovations with the dizalmu exotosome and hyaluronic acid- Mm-hmm skincare kits. We then became a licensed distributor of Mu's, dizalmu's exosomes and stem cells. Yeah. So those were those product lines as they launched. We had credibility, our partners had credibility. And then the next step was the clinic, the elite model, where we're actually testing that in a clinic setting, expanding that out. Once we launch our clinic, there'll be more that launch after that. And then our next step will be telemedicine, where we're really trying to increase the reach of our product line, so it's not just for the elite that pay for their memberships- Yeah it's actually for the everyday soccer mom, you know, gym guy, whatever it is- Yeah that they can actually go onto a telemedicine platform, have an actual consult with a doctor, get advice, get protocols, get the education that they need to take the product without paying those big prices. So that's kind of how we did that, really sequenced it in a way where we built the trust along the way. Yeah. Um, one of the things that sometimes business leaders don't like to talk about is mistakes along the maid. So reflecting on the last couple of years, was there a decision that you've made or, you know, the leadership team made that, you know, "Gee, that didn't really go well," that other people might learn from? Yeah, I think it's... The biggest issues I wanna say are supply chain. Yeah. And so not having redundancies in your model and not having multiple labs or multiple pharmacies that you're working with- Yeah you're always gonna run into hiccups, and I think that that's one of our biggest mistakes is not having those built in at first. Um, so that would... And just because what happens is you have supply chain issues, your supply chain is clogged, and then your customers aren't getting the product, and then the lead times are so long. So that was definitely, and I think that's true for any business out there, I'm sure- Yeah all the business owners agree that supply chain is the most important thing- Mm until you bring everything in-house, it's all external and outsourced. So that would definitely be the biggest. Yeah. Okay. Uh, I mentioned, we mentioned, um, decisions before. So, um, I, I'm interested in, in your journey in, in business and, and, and your work because there's, there's something of a pattern of you making big moves before all the ducks are in a row, if we, if we can put it that way. So, um, for business owners sitting on a decision that feels too early for them or they feel uncertain about, what is the cost of not acting? I think the c- I think that really if you look at businesses, they're so innovative in most cases. Uh, innovation is always scary and new. Mm. I say take the leap. Uh, the cost of not doing it is honestly... The cost of not taking advantage of an opportunity that's right in front of you, the worst thing that can happen is you can fail, and then you just try again. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. I, okay- Although my motto is, "Failure is not an option," my whole team knows that. Yeah. I say it on a weekly basis. Yeah. I, I'm interested too, the, um, the, the, the, the fine line, uh, if you like, of a courageous decision or a courageous bet on something versus recklessness and a bad decision. Have you got a process to work through that that other people might learn from? Yeah. Uh, we're all about compliance, and that's the biggest thing for us, is like every decision is based on a compliance decision, on the regulations. Current regulations are changing every day, making sure that we're pulling from our, our advisors. We have a very strong advisory board. Um, our CEO is very well-connected in the administration and with all of these, the, the laws. He's helped w- write legislation. Just everything for us is guided by quality and compliance 100%. Yeah. And I think that when you make a leap without doing the research on what is legally allowed, that's when you make the biggest mistake, and that is when it costs you. Yeah. Okay. All right, so a- again, going to the, the building stage, and, and it may almost be even too early to ask this question, but you know, when you're building something from zero, there comes a point that what made you successful as the builder can actually get in the way of the next stage. Have you found that over the last two years where it's gone, "Actually, that doesn't work anymore, we've gotta do that now," or, "We have to flip- Yeah or pivot"? Can you talk us through that? Yeah. We've pivoted quite a few times. We pivid- pivoted initially away from more of a, a gray market, not really a gray market, but fully pivoting from something that was not yet in that gray market, but we, it was moving there, to a pharmacy model very quickly, and it happened within a matter of a week or two. Yeah, wow. And we pivoted many times in this company. We pivoted from, you know, we bought, brought in new products. We decided to go in a different path with, for telemedicine, look at, uh, bringing on different advisors, and really taking their knowledge and bring it into the company. So definitely I think for our company, if we had one motto, it's that pivoting is, is like every day we pivot. That's just how we, how we do this, but we're also a startup even if- Yeah going public. We're a startup, a very true, true startup. Yeah. All right. So th- then just one more layer down on that, what have you personally had to, I guess, almost stop doing or let go of to become better- as Vesalius has grown? Heh, my personal life? Yeah, talk us through that, right, 'cause that's a cost that you don't often hear. Um- Um, no, I think that the long hours, we started out with four people, we have about 25 now. Yeah. I think roughly 25. Um, it's definitely a cost and, and my team would, would agree with this. I tell my team, "I expect you to take all the time you need. We don't have a vacation policy. I believe in taking the time that you need as long as you're performing," but that policy does not apply to me or my executives. So it's definitely a toll on, on your life in general. But as far as from a, um, I find it exciting. I love, I love building things. I'm not as motivated by money as I am about building something new and exciting that's gonna change the world- Yeah and make a difference, and being involved in the evolution of medicine is, is, it's super exciting to me. So, um, take a little toll for now, and then as we build our team, maybe I'll take a vacation. Right. And okay, so what do you do to get away from work then, other than work, work, work? Um, I travel a lot. So I travel for work. I try to make a little bit of fun out of every travel- Yeah especially if my team's with me, we always do some sort of outing or fun. Yeah. Um, but on my own I, I am a, I'm a huge traveler, so that's pretty much... That's or, you know, gym, obviously the typical longevity stuff. Yeah. I go to the gym. I, I, uh, am very social, as much as I can be. I mean, we don't work 24/7, but we do definitely, this is the startup phase and it's just, I- I've worked in startup my entire life. Yeah. I've never worked for a company that wasn't a startup, so I guess I'm just really used to it. Yeah. But, uh, it gets better. After we go public and we start to build our team, it'll be better, I promise. Yeah. Uh, it's ju- the reason I ask that question, it's every entrepreneur's challenge, right? Of, of how to put my all into my work and make it a success without it hurting family time, my health, and, and all of those sorts of things. So do you... I, I guess what I'm asking, do you feel you, that is still imbalanced in this startup phase for you? Um, it's getting better. Yeah. Uh, but yes, it definitely was not... It's just that the nature of a startup. Yeah. It's, we're heading to the public market. Yeah. Um, it's a very exciting time. So I don't... I, I'm a workaholic, and I love what I do, and I'm very- Yeah passionate about it, so I don't think that it bothers me as much. But I do know that being a business owner is f- it's very taxing on everything. You just have to find that healthy balance where, you know, in your evenings or whatever you can find some spare time, sometimes to go for a walk in the middle of the day. Um, you just have to find your own peace within your business, and that's really an individual journey. But whether it's working out or seeing friends or traveling. All right, Timi, can we delve into the business model a little bit? Because this is, I think it's something that a lot of companies, as I said, grow, struggle with because you operate across a whole market from the high-end clinic in Miami, you know, to a planned telemedicine platform for everyday people. So how do you run two completely different commercial models under that one brand without one undermining the other? So I think that if you look at, um, in, at the aesthetics world, since we have an aesthetic product, there are many aesthetic products that have a high-end department store brand, and then they have a CVS brand. Yeah. It's all about the quality. If you're on an... I'm gonna give you a bunch of analogies. If you're on an airplane and you're in first class or you're in coach, it's the same plane, same pilot. Mm. So it's, so what we're really doing is we're making sure that the standard is always quality, so we can run these brands in parallel. And all what we're really doing is taking, building the model with this elite clinic and our doctor network, and then we're really improving our reach. With any product that you bring to market, it's expensive at birth. It gets more, less expensive as you go, as the volume builds. So we're able to run these models because we have, we have different key guys obviously, but they can run in parallel because it, really the main focus here is the quality of the product. It's not what the audience that we're looking at. Yeah, okay. You, you mentioned maintaining quality. Have you got some tips about how to do that for our listeners? So for us, and I don't know if everyone's in that, I don't think you're all in the same industry, for us definitely have, um, quality checks. We have a supply chain manager, director of supply chain. We have a lot of operations people involved, and what they do is w- we're doing testing on all the products, so even the testing could be a above and beyond what normal, uh, labs with pharmacies are doing. We're doing that testing. We provide that. We're very transparent about the testing. Uh, we make sure that we vet all of our suppliers, we have all of their licenses in place, everything is vetted, everyone in he- is held to the same standard across the board. Yeah. So there's no discrepancy between one vendor versus the other. So we, we developed those, you know, quality guide that we go by. So that's kind of how we kept that in check, and then looking at potentially bringing on a full-time compliance person that's really gonna dive into that. But everything that we do is very ke- heavily regulated. Yes. So compliance is what we, and quality is what we live by and die by. Yeah. And, and I guess in some ways because of your industry, you're, you're forced into quality, right? Because of the compliance nature of it. Yeah. Yeah. The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website, and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel Software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors, and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your 14-day free trial. Okay, um, l- let's talk about this, a, a concept that I, I've, I've heard you guys talk about is the, the luxury fines, funds rather, the first version. So you've got a, a pretty sharp view around that. Um, so can you break that down practically? So how does a, a $10,000 membership, the luxury, at the top end of the market actually pay for access at the bottom? Talk us through that. Yeah. So I would look at, um, luxury as being more early adopters. So with any- Uh-huh brand that you see launch, you're going to have your early adopters. I mean, for instance, the car, when it was invented, only the elite would have a car. Mm-hmm. But as they started to build that just credibility around the car and then the volume, they were able to drop the, the prices and then they were able to offer that up to everybody, and everyone has a car unless you live up to inner city. So I really look at it like that. So you have early adopters. They set, they prove the model, they prove what you have. They're-- You, you got the quality there. They're using your products. And then there's a lot of, um, influencer who've generated noise out there. So you've got these elites using these products, and everyone wants the products. And at first, you know, probably having to potentially in some cases, you know, bankrupt their kids' college fund. I don't know. And then eventually you wanna move to a volume model, and you wanna take that business that you built through this and you've proven out in your clinic and your bo- your doctor model, and you wanna be able to expand access to everyone. And so it's not as... I mean, telemedicine is an amazing experience, but it's not the same as having a provider. These elites are in, in luxury, uh- Affluent people, they're going to still go to a doc. They wanna touch, feel everything. But if you wanna go to a telemedicine platform, which is a wonderful way to get peptides, you're still talking to a licensed provider over video. Yeah. You're still getting the protocols. The protocols are usually designed by a longevity doctor that you probably have seen later in the age. That's how... So you're getting the same, uh, protocols. You're just not able to see someone face to face, and I think that that's really what we're evolving to is prove it out and then let's expand it, and that's how the, the luxury or the early adopters really find the overall growth of their money. Yeah. And is there a point where that model either breaks or becomes unsustainable? I hope not. Right. I don't, I can't see, um... Because as we shift, there's always gonna be a need for these high-end clinics, and they're few and far between. There are not a lot of really good longevity doctors out there. There are a lot of people that have IVs in their clinic, and they parse out a few peptides, but they're, those are your everyday functional medicine clinics, and there are some wonderful ones. But there is always gonna be a need for high-end, elite longevity clinics, and there's always gonna be a need for a telemedicine platform. Mm. Look at Hi- Hims and Hers or other platforms where they're, they're selling peptides and they're going to start selling even more peptides as they start getting released by the FDA. Um, I don't see them stopping. This is just the beginning of a, a mounting, uh, you know, surge of energy towards this evolution of medicine, so I don't, I don't see it changing anytime soon. Okay, Timi, I wanna start-- I wanna touch rather on something you mentioned at the start, and that's the overlooked customer. You describe women in midlife as the most overlooked customer in longevity. So what's the commercial opportunity? And I guess, well, it's kind of 50% of the population in that age bracket, right? So what, what's the commercial opportunity the industry has been sleeping on, and what does it take to actually serve that customer well? Yeah, so I think, I mean, women are not a niche, and I think that that's a, a misconception when you think about the, the female population. We do make up 50% of the population. We are in- Women are now, always have been very- intense and they're very, uh, and I mean, if you think about the female population, they're decision-makers, they're, they're strong women, they're s- they're single moms, they're career women, they're... Whatever it is, they're, they're holding down the household. Um, but women are, they are... For some reason, biohacking has always been about bodybuilding and- Yeah you know, it's been a male dom- At the female population, what we're going through in your 40s and 50s, you're going through the biggest biological change since puberty. We're going through perimenopause. It doesn't have to be that bad. So I think just really working with the women, and I actually participated in a documentary that was called She Healed or Shield, which was through Bi- Biohack Yourself with my business partner, my former business partner, and, and Dr. Melissa Peterson. And the entire documentary is about women's health and what we could do to change the trajectory of, and how we could re- better serve women. And I think the, the bottom line is we connect them with the right doctors, we give them the right educational, and we give them the right choices to, in their, in their healthcare so that they can actually maybe not suffer as much through menopause. Maybe like, it... There's so many benefits to provide for females, and I think that that is almost under, uh, under-educated in physicians. I think that they, the focus is more on, on men, and we're trying to change that. Yeah. Uh, okay, now my next question might be a little bit precarious, but I, I wanna say it's not medical advice, it's not prescribing anything. But I'm interested in, uh, I mean, uh, your journey. What, what kind of longevity things do you do? And even part of that for, for that part of the market, we, we spoke about women in perimenopause and menopause. What typically are some of the benefits of peptides and all of those sorts of things? So can we, can we touch on that a little bit? Firstly, what you do, and then what it might look like for someone. Again, not, not prescription, not medical advice, et cetera. Yeah. So I, um, take, I've taken most of the peptides. You usually do them in, in protocols, and you, um, stack them together so there's certain things that work well together. So if you're taking anything for weight loss, you wanna take a, uh, sermorelin or, um, tesamorelin or CJC 1295 and ipamorelin. Those are all gonna help with muscle recovery and muscle gain, and actually retention as well. Yeah. So those are wonderful products to pair if you... And you, and the bodybuilders use it all the time. Females use them as they're going through menopause to help with, uh, with muscle loss, 'cause we, we do lose a lot of muscle. Yeah. Um, I've taken epitalon, which is, uh, really helps to... It's really about, it's a total anti-aging. I won't go into the details of it, um- I've taken the, pretty much everything. I don't want, I forget, I should keep on going. Um, CHK copper, so copper peptide, wonderful for skin and hair. That's another really great for women. As you get older, your skin becomes dull, your hair starts to, to thin out. Um, so a lot of women will take that. Um, I mean, I, BPC 157 500 is really good for tendon, uh, and, and soft tissue healing, especially if you're a bodybuilder or just had an injury. It works really well. Uh, so those are some of the ones that I do, but KPV is another one that's, uh, your inflammation. It can, KPV and BPC 157 can work on your gut health. If you really think about what you're trying to heal as you age, it's your gut health, your stress, your- Yeah um, your hormones, your just overall body. Yeah. So there's, those are the main ones that I probably have taken. I'm taking a lot more that I'm gonna get into this, um They're more complicated. Yeah. But start out small would be my, my, um- Yeah my advice. Yeah. And, and again, seek your own medical advice and your own, do your own research, et cetera, et cetera. So all right, Timmy, Vesalius is, is evolving from a, a product company into a full platform. So you've got pharmacy, you've got telehealth and regenerative modalities, and they're all under that one infrastructure, a little bit like the plane analogy, um, you gave before. So what's the hardest part of that integration i- in the build process? Yeah. So there's two parts to, to look at, and there's the, the people integration and the different pieces that play into the puzzle, like your pharmacy, your doctor, and your, your marketing. Mm-hmm. Mm. So like your pharmacy sees it as a prescription, your doctor sees it as a patient, and your marketing sees a patient as a lead. Yes. Really getting, bringing this all together and making sure that we see this patient as a individual person that has individual needs and meeting those needs. But then when we look at from a tech perspective, when you start a company, everything is outsourced. So you outsource your supply chain, you outsource your distribution center. But as you grow and you start to build your business, you wanna bring everything in-house because you wanna own the whole process. Mm-hmm. And that has to do with quality, it has to do with just controlling every piece of it so there's no hidden surprises. And what that takes, a lot of coordination, but it also takes a, a tech platform, which is what we're building now. And if one piece of that doesn't work, just one little coding error, and the whole thing falls apart. So that's been the biggest integration issues for us is starting to try to bring all this in-house while we're still using white label portals here. Yeah. Bringing that into one beautiful center view that's going to be our universe at, with one login for a doctor for all of our chronic lines. But with that comes a lot of difficult, you know, a lot of coding hours and it takes so... And there's, there's always pieces that are broken that you have to fix, that everything I've ever seen launched, there's something that always breaks. Yeah. We've actually had our systems completely crash when, when our influencers started pushing patients in toward our other, our first telemedicine platform. Yeah. It completely crashed the system. So that is, it's crucial 'cause we're an e-commerce company, so tech- Yeah is a huge element. Yeah. And so what happens with companies that tried to rush that process? If you rush it, you're going to end up with, number one, you're gonna end up with compliance fra- issues if you're not compliant. I mean, there's a lot of things that come into that. As we go public, there's the SOC, CUP SOC compliance, there's- Yeah there's compliance from a HIPAA compliance standpoint too, you've got patient data. So if you rush that process and miss one of those pieces, you could top a whole organization 'cause you- it's, it's very heavily, heavily regulated. Um, and you wanna make sure things are done right. We've done things quickly before. We've made our mistakes, cut our teeth on platforms that, that crashed, that we didn't do the work 'cause we wanted to get them up so quickly. Yeah, yeah. I always say Put in the time, be patient, and do it right the first time. Um, that's just from learning from my mistakes. Yeah. Th- th- there's, there's tension in that though, isn't there, in that you wanna get to market, and you wanna get quickly, and you've gotta be making money to cover costs, and yet don't rush it. Is there, is there any advice you've got for listeners about how to manage that tension in a growth phase? Well, first you have to manage your board and your CEO. Yeah. No, it's... I'm just kidding. I lo- I love her board. But it's really about, uh, taking the time, thinking about what would it cost you to, to risk your reputation to do it the wrong way, and I think that- Mm that's what people overlook so much, is you wanna rush to market 'cause you want those dollars realized, but what is it gonna cost you in bad reputation and a bad first impression? You only have one chance for that, and I think that that is a huge lesson to be learned, and I have made this in my career before, and everyone I've known has made it in their career. As entre- a serial entrepreneur, I've made it more than once. Just you have to make sure you have at least a minimal viable product before you go to market and open it, and you test it, and you do all the things you need to do, because you only get that one chance, and then- Yeah you lose the customer. Yeah. Can we talk about people a, a little bit? I mean, you do have a, a lot of experience working in startups and, and, and all those sorts of things, and one of the things that entrepreneurs... Well, complain's too strong a word. I don't wanna put it in a negative light, but people, right? Hiring the right people and, and, and staff. So what, what tips around hiring and people do you have based on your experience? I, um, I love my people, and I pride myself in my hiring techniques. I... Everyone I've ever interviewed, I've said, "I know you have the skill set, but I need to make sure you fit in with my team." Mm. One bad apple spoils the entire bunch, so, um, I believe that one negative person can poison an entire company. So I have always prided myself, and I actually ask in my interviews every time, "I'm... I know you can do this, but I need to know that you're, that you have the vi- that your vibe is going to vibe with my tribe." Right. So it sounds l- it sounds, like, really simple, but really having that, our team- Work so well together. We get along so well. I have 15 people on my team, um, and there's... It, it's just a very seamless operation, and everyone helps each other out, and I can't tell you how important that is. Yeah. And in sales, and I've seen this happen time and time again, your number one mistake in your hiring sales people is if you hire someone that is negative. Yeah, I would rather hire a lower performer that was more positive than I would a negative performer that was just blowing it out any day of the week. Yeah. And, uh, like, what advice or tips have you got about how you test that? How do you know if someone's going to be that, um, you know, that, that good egg within the, you know, within the team or a rotten egg within the team? Is it just a gut thing, or have you got some other tips you can share with us? A lot of it is gut. Yeah. Um, a lot of it is just I'm a very calm person, and so I have very calm traits, and I pick up on frantic or erratic or negative energy, so maybe it's just a, a gut that I have. Okay. But I do ask certain questions. Now I wanna get to know them. I walk up, walk through their resume without reading it, and if I've read your resume, now why don't you tell me what stands out? I want to know what motivates them. I ask that question, "What motivates you? What gets you out of bed every day? Um, what are you excited about? Like, what do you think you could bring to the table?" I don't ask the cookie cutter questions. I really try to focus on... I'm well-vaped about the experience. I've seen their resume. I've researched them before I've interviewed them. Yeah. And anyone can be taught, and that's another part of it, is there's, there's core skill sets and then there are other things that could be taught. And so what you can't tea- teach is a good attitude. All right. Great. Thank you for that. So h- here's another, I guess, almost left field question. What do you love about the business right now? I just, I love... I'm very passionate about, um- Peptides and about integrated medicine. You know, stem cell of exosomes, I see what they can do for people. The first company I worked at in the peptide space was an N-of-1 company where we designed-- we took labs, blood, urine, tumor samples from cancer patients and very ill patients, fed them through sophisticated labs, and developed an N-of-1 designed peptides for that specific patient. And I saw a lot of patients really recover from intense diseases. So I developed a real passion. I worked in pharmaceuticals for a long time, and I just felt I was on the wrong side of the fence. And coming into peptides, I just-- I, I love where we're going. I love that, you know, the PCAC committee, you know, recommended to the FDA that they release all of the, you know, 14 peptides into the compounding pharmacy world. I love that we're moving manufacturing, which we're gonna be involved in to the United States, where we're actually producing a active pharmaceutical ingredient in the US so that we're having a very consistent product flow. I love that we're increasing the, um, the compliance and the re- and really following regulations and, and parsing out quality product. That I wanna be a part of every day. Like, I wanna be a part of something that's helping people and not hurting them and not being a part of the problem. Okay. Um, business owners and business leaders, entrepreneurs, they're solving problems all the time. What's one thing at the moment that's keeping you up at night? Uh, lots of things keep me up. I think right now it's we built, you know, we built, built it, and now they should come, right? Yeah. Like- Yeah well, we, um, and it's just really, we kind of started over again in a new product vertical, um, and just rebuilding that business. And as we're going public and there are all these things happening, just making sure as the regulations change, that everything we're on top of it. Those things keep me up at night. Like, I mean- Yeah um, but as we move down this pathway, just really trying to regrow our, our customer base and recapture what we kind of lost a little bit in that transition. And then so that keeps me up at night, definitely, and when obviously going public is a, is a big deal- Yeah so there's a lot of, of stuff going on there. But I think just really making sure that my, that our sales trajectory is where it needs to be and that we're compliant and that we're following all the regulations. Yeah. Yeah, the if you build it, they will come is just a movie, right? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So let's, let's get the crystal ball out a little bit here. So take us 10 years forward. What do you believe about longevity medicine today that you think will seem completely obvious or normal in, say, 2036? Oh, no, I think that peptide or, or longevity medicine is going to evolve. There's gonna be every day there's a new modality, a new, the new shiny toy. I do think that peptides could be part of everyday medicine. I think that the update, FDA is probably gonna open up pathways for peptides to be approved down the, the pharmaceutical, uh, pathway- Yeah um, which for, you know, insurance companies to be able to cover them. I think that that's probably in the future somewhere. I think that, um, we're going to be living healthier, longer lives. You're gonna be seeing a lot less, uh, money spent on, from the healthcare perspective, on it prolonging people's lives rather than the hospital. You're gonna see a lot more healthy people living longer but living healthy enough that they don't need to go to the hospital because they're deathly ill with something. I don't know. I think people will start living longer. I don't know how much longer, but I do think that they're, we're going to have a healthier, happier population. Um, and I think it's gonna be, it's gonna be the next primary care product. Like, these are all gonna be primary care products in the next 10 to 15 years. Yeah. It's certainly a very exciting field, and the, I guess, the impact on humanity is, is significant when, you know, if that, that vision comes to life, right? I mean, that's the, the, uh, the ability to help so many people is just, you know, is just mind-blowing and, and how impactful that can be. Yeah. I mean, there are wa- there's always gonna be new diseases that people do get. I mean, uh, we see that uptick in, in cancer and autoimmune, and that's gonna happen. Um, so I don't think that we're gonna have a, a spike in the population or anything like that. But- Yeah. Uh, and I mean, I, I think it also gets back to, you know, the earlier you start doing that, looking af- looking after yourself, the, the better it will be for you, you know, long term. Absolutely. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. And I guess we can't, we can't overstate that or state that often enough, right, for- Yeah for people to... Yeah. All righty, as we, we finish up, I've, I've got one more question, uh, about, I don't know, almost your ideal customer. So picture a business owner, you know, v- very, very busy, lot of stress and so forth. They're, they say they're 45, they're burned out. They've never thought seriously about longevity as a health strategy. Um, so not as a customer, just as a person. So what's the one conversation you'd want them to walk away from today to help them change their life? Absolutely. I think that, um, some of the most, uh, influential, productive leaders are 40s and 50s usually, sometimes 60s. I would walk away and say, "Your biggest asset to your company is your energy and your vitality, and I think that these are the most productive years of your, your length. And you have families, and if you ask them what they, or friends or what a- what have you, if you ask them if they wanted more money or more time with you and more health to spend with you, they would absolutely every day pick time." Mm-hmm. And so I would recommend that everyone that has the capacity to do it, to really look in, to do the testing, the lab testing to see, do your blood work, um, do your genetic testing, and really live your, your last life to the best that you can. I mean, I'm, I'm 52, and I like living my best life. I feel like I'm 20. Yeah, and I, I think too, Timmy, one of the, the things statistically the, you know, 50 plus is, you know, 50 to 70 is kind of the best earning years of your life as well, right? Um- Yeah that, that's kind of what the numbers tell us. So yeah, start early and, and really ramp up when you get to that, um, that peak time, as you said, physically and earning-wise. So all right, fantastic. Timmy, thank you. It's been a, a wonderful conversation. One of the things that we do with our guests is we ask them quick-fire 10 questions to get to know the person behind the microphone a little bit, and we ask you to answer them in a sentence or less. So are you ready to go? I'm gonna fire 10 questions at you and, and get you to, to jump right in with your answers. I'm ready. All righty, let's go. So are you a build a business or a buy a business person? Oh, build every day. Yeah, that was gonna- always gonna be the answer, right? Yeah. Uh, revenue or profit? Revenue. Mm-hmm. Growth or stability? Uh, growth. Hire fast or hire slow? Hire slow. Mm-hmm. Fire fast. Yeah. It's, it's the old, the, the, the old one in business, right? Uh, you know, there's worse business advice to take than that, so. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, control or scale? Scale. What's one business decision you'd happily make again? This is a hard one. Um, I would happily jump into this company and build it all over again exactly the way we did it, with just a few tweaks, every day of the week. Wow. Uh, that, that's a, that's a really strong endorsement. Fantastic. Um, luxury market or mass market? I would say mass market for the betterment of everyone, but I'd love the luxury market too, but I think that in the end it needs to be a mass market. Yeah. Like, I mean, we can say both as well, right? I mean, it's our show, so- it's our, it's our conversation. All right. Um, science or story? Science. Mm-hmm. Clinic or telehealth? Telehealth All right. Now regulation, is it a moat or a roadblock? A moat. Okay. All right. Fantastic. Thank you. So our last question, so Timmy Stump, if business truly is a game, what's your definition of winning? I love your questions. What's my definition of le- winning? Um, checkmate. Oh, what does that mean? I don't know. Oh, you're saying checkmate from us 'cause you can't answer that question. Have a go. Yeah. I reckon what- I reckon whatever you say will be a, a, so- there'll be something from, for someone to learn from. No, I if I was playing the game, what was the question again? Say it one more time. Yeah, so if business truly is a game, what's your definition of winning? Oh, my definition of winning is building a truly sustainable company that helps the most people possible in the most ethical way. Yeah. Okay. All right. Fantastic. So thank you very much, Timmy. So final, final one, where can people find you and Vesalius Longevity Labs online? So vesaliuslabs.com is our corporate site. Peptual.com is our cons- or our business to doctor site, and then you can also find us on regenepprocessing.com is which, uh, where, where we sell our disialuse cell annex. All right, fantastic. Thank you very much. That's all we've got time for. So if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game and check out the playlist for the level of business you're currently playing, because every founder is somewhere on the game board from zero all the way to over $50 billion. Choose your level and we'll see you next time. Thanks very much, Timmy. Thank you so much for having me, Harry. I enjoyed this.