0:00

I turned away probably 25% of the people that came looking for a franchise. The whole healthcare industry in the United States, it's growing, but the challenges that they're facing today, it's not like it used to be. You've gotta have the right mindset. The hardest part is getting that entrepreneur to sit back and say, "Okay, teach me." I really don't care how much experience somebody has. I need somebody that's willing to listen and that can talk to a tree by themselves. We're in that range of 100 to 150 million, but, you know, to say, "Hey, we built a $100 million company today," I almost read about that every day. Now let's talk about building something pretty special. Let's build a billion-dollar organization. Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels from zero to over $50 billion so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level three, which sits in the 3 to $10 million bracket, the operator stage. At this level, revenue is consistent and the team is growing, but you're no longer just building a business. You're building leadership. The challenges? Delegating real ownership, installing managers, and making the psychological shift from founder-operator to CEO. The goal? Step out of the bottleneck and build a leadership layer that scales beyond you Welcome to The Business Game. I'm Steve Plummer. Be sure to like and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. Today, we're joined by Mike Harley, a specialist in franchising, sales, marketing, and business development, with experience building and scaling franchise systems across multiple industries. He's now bringing that expertise to the US pharmacy industry through Galt Franchise Systems, helping independent pharmacy owners build more sustainable businesses through a franchise model. Today, we're diving into the future of independent pharmacies and what it takes to build a scalable franchise system, and the lessons Mike has learned along the way. Let's dive in with Mike Harley. Mike, welcome to The Business Game. Thanks, Steve. It's good to be here. All righty. Before we get into the nuts and bolts, let's hear a little bit about your journey, because you've, you've built and led franchise systems across multiple industries internationally, and so that's, um, that's kind of a big deal. And so give us a, a short version of your career journey, and what originally drew you to the franchising world as a growth vehicle? Well, it was an accident for sure, getting into franchising. I mean, I started in the airline industry, so I happened to, you know, answer a, back in the day, called an ad in a newspaper. That, um, we had a, there was two, two car companies merging, two franchise systems in North America. So, you know, I went over and, um, started right in with that, built their, their reservation software and, um, 24-hour call center, ended with about 250 franchises in North America. From there, um, I moved into, uh, senior VP, then I left, went to another car company, um, took a company public after that, um- I think what was interesting is I returned back to the first franchise system that I started with right before Y2K. Mm-hmm. And I had no idea- I don't think anybody knew what that was gonna be about. I had to rebuild all the software that I built in the '80s. Mm. New phone system, you know, administrative everything. I wasn't fond of the name, so the name was Payless Car Rental, and I wasn't fond of the name because it's a difficult br- difficult brand name. Mm. And so, um, but I fell actually in love with it after the internet was born because nobody was gonna go to the internet to spend more money. So we built the company into a top 10 car rental company in the United States. And then, um, from there I built a, uh, the largest and the first really used car, uh, sales company, which was Payless Car Sales in the US. So we built that to 60 franchises- Wow in about five years. So that's the franchising piece of it- Yes before getting into consulting and jumping on over to, to Gulf Franchise System. Yeah. Well, that's, um, that's quite a background. Interesting you said that something called a newspaper ad. There's a nice trip down memory lane for, for our listeners as well. Like, uh, yeah, those were the days, huh? Yep. Yeah. Yep. All right, Mike, let's fast-forward to today then and talk about what's happening in independent pharmacies. So what's actually going on in the US right now in the independent pharmacy market? Well, many, many of these independent pharmacies are just, um You know, I don't wanna say becoming in- at stake, but they are really struggling because of less profits. And, you know, the, the whole healthcare industry in the United States is, it's growing, but the challenges that they're facing today was not... You know, it's not like a, quite like it used to be. So they're closing at a crazy rate. I mean, I read, uh, you know, every year I just see the numbers that are... You know, they're closing their doors, and it just, it's, it's, uh, it's sad, to be honest. Mm. I mean, you know, what makes the independent different than the big pharma is the personalized patient care. Mm. I mean, I use a, a, an independent here in Tampa, Florida versus, you know, walking into our big, big pharma companies here, and I get, you know, medications delivered to my door the next day. The service is fantastic. So the industry is, is evolving and, um, you either adapt into and evolve with that or, you know, y- you gotta figure out what your next move's gonna be. Yeah. And I, I guess ultimately too, um, consumers are the ones who lose out in that, that market, isn't it? Because that, um, you know, w- we hear it all the time with AI and everything online, that personalization really, um, you know, w- our humanity is getting lost at times in all of that, and so the, the independent pharmacy is, is a way to still bring that humanity back to the marketplace. Is that a fair, a fair summary? It is. That's, that's correct. I mean, um, I've never thought... Uh, I, until I joined Gulp, I didn't think about even walking into an independent pharmacy. Yeah. But now that I'm, you know, getting my medications from there, um, you know, how they communicate prior to refills and so on, um, and it's not all automated. It's a personal touch. Yeah. That to me is the real difference. Yeah. So looking at the, the business itself, a couple things you talk about are, are terms like reimbursement pressure and shrinking margins. And so- Mm what do, what do those things look like on a day-to-day basis for an independent pharmacy? Well, I mean- It's- they, their reimbursement rates are, are no doubt shrinking and, and drug costs, it would be nice if they were lowering, but they're, they're rising. So, you know, the, the PBMs that are out there are, are in more control, and then you gotta look at the, in, in the States, I mean, I, I don't know if it's all over the world, but the labor shortage is here. Mm-hmm. Um, it's making operations more expensive. So these independent pharmacies aren't disappearing because patients, you know, don't need them. They're struggling because the economics- Yeah of dispensing drugs have become a huge challenge. And, you know, it's like with anything in business, you're gonna get faced with challenges, and then you're gonna try to do everything you can to, you know, survive and hopefully, you know, fight the fight and thrive. Yeah. And that- it sounds like from what you're saying, that's a battle that a lot of, or a fight that a lot of pharm- independent pharmacies are, are really struggling with these days. Mm-hmm. No, no doubt about it. I mean, I, I hear it's... I did a, just a, a short interview yesterday, and this, this came up from, uh, up north in, in Michigan. Yeah. And, um, it's- the challenges are real all over the place. It's not just like, uh, regional. It's, it's a problem in the States. Yeah. And, and I guess that leads me to my next question then, why franchising? So there's all this disruption, you know, in the marketplace and so forth, and yet you're, you're betting the independent pharmacy ownership still has a future, which is, uh, given, I guess, the absence or, or given all the evidence likewise that that, that could be, um, a bit of a risk. So I guess I'm asking, what did you see in the market that made you believe that franchising could be part of the answer? Well, you know, that, that's a really, really good question because when I first started talking with the Galt founders in 2023, I like challenges, I, I like disruptions. And, and when you have a, a challenge and a disruption like what we're talking about here in this space, um, the opportunity is to do what? Help the independent pharmacy owner- Yeah and pharmacist. I mean, these people that are owners or pharmacists have been, you know, went to how many years of school, whether it's six to eight years of- Yeah of education. This is their career for the rest of their life. And now what do they do if they're not able to follow their dream? So this is an opportunity for Galt to, um, you know, find that entrepreneur as a, as a franchise owner to work with independent pharmacies in their local community. So there's advantages there to not only scale the franchise system, but there's advantages to the independent pharmacy, um, to hop on a system, if you will- Yeah and, and follow something that's repeatable- And that- that's really where I see where we can help the independent pharmacy. Yeah. Okay. So let's get into, um, the, the Gult Fra- Franchise System now. So- Mm-hmm for a pharmacist or a healthcare entrepreneur listening right now, what does owning, uh, a Gult franchise look like day-to-day? Well, I'm gonna give you the short version, 'cause I could do a- just an hour podcast just on that. But- Yeah, yeah you know, and when I say, when you hear me say GPS, that's Gult Franchise System- Yes so to keep it short. Um, but franchi- a franchisee owns and operates their pharmacy business. I mean, they're not... It, it's a, it's an old saying, but you're not in business, um, by yourself, you're in business for yourself, right? So we're not there to, you know, tell a, a franchisee how to run their business, and that's not how franchise systems work. Yeah. Um, but, you know, they get a chance to, uh, build relationships. You know, they get a brand, a national brand, part of a national brand with a local identity. They get marketing support, coaching, all kinds of tools, uh, data, IT, and they get a, they get a chance to compete in the local community. Mm-hmm. So, you know, back in when the internet first came around, it said small companies, the, the internet's gonna create a level playing field. That's still true today, and that's really what GPS is about, is trying to help that independent compete with the big boys. Okay. So let's... Can we drill down a layer down into that? So what are you providing, um, that allows the independent franchisee- pharmacists to, to compete? Well, um, first of all, we have, we have FDA, um, approved products. Um, and the products are fantastic, and not just because I'm doing this podcast and telling you that. I've actually been in the field listening to, uh, to doctors and, um, it's amazing what the products, um, what they can do for patients. So I'll kind of leave it at that. Yeah. Um, so they get access to that, but as I said earlier, they get access to a lot of data, so we know what's going on in these protected territories that we're providing to a franchise owner. So we, the data's there, um, and, you know, we're tracking this thing as close to real time as possible to be able to track prescriptions, um, refills. I mean, we really have a good handle on knowing where that, how that data is working in the different territories. So as a franchise owner, if you can imagine for just one second, I wanna start this business from scratch, that's the neat part of franchising is that you don't have to think about that because we're going to... I don't wanna use the word turnkey because it's not really a turnkey, but it's as close to turnkey in providing the systems and the, uh, the support and, uh, the benefits from a, from a franchise system. Yeah. And so just on that, for someone who's listening and going, "Gee, I'm, I'm actually quite interested in this," what, what do, as a franchisee, what do I still own and control? Well, you, um, you, your territory's protected, which means that not another franchisee can come into that market. Um, so they, they control their relationships with the doctors. Um, it's their relationships. And, you know, that relationship is golden in this business. I mean, you just don't go in and, and talk to, talk about your product. You gotta, there's gotta be a connection there, right? Yeah. So once that connection's there, then, you know, the opportunity is really protected from having that franchise agreement in a franchise system. It creates trust, long-term s- uh, security. You know, more importantly is it gives them an opportunity to grow in their market and do what they love. Yeah. You know? So that- Yeah that's the, the, the thing that w- we, we're, we're very passionate about is that when we're talking with, uh, with a, with a prospect is, is that they are really passionate about learning about what we're doing, and then they wanna implement it, and they gotta be willing, of course, to listen to a system of processes. And if they do, their chances of, uh, you know, growing are, are pretty good. Yeah. And on those, those systems, is it easy for someone to come in and pick up those? Now, obviously you've got your training and all those sorts of things, but for, you know, is, is that a fairly easy and smooth process? Well, I, I like using the I like using a car wash. I mean, we, when, when we onboard somebody, whether they're in the pharma, um, industry or not, um, our onboarding and our training is, it's fantastic. Mm. I mean, there is some AI built into it as well. Um, and but what I think that we probably are most proud about is the support because this isn't, uh, I'm sure you've heard it, um, probably in franchising, is that, you know, they, they pay the fee, they get trained, they say, "Good luck, and we hope- Yes you make it. If you need us, call us." Yes. We do the opposite. We don't wait for them to call us. We call them on a weekly basis, and that goes on for a long period of time- Uh-huh to make sure that we're answering all their questions, to the point where- I could have five or six people on a call knowing any question that they ask, we're gonna be able to answer it, versus saying, "Okay, you know, let us take that back. Let us talk to a few people. We'll get back to you next week." We're trying to do as much real time as we can to put ourselves in the shoes of that new franchisee. They want answers right away, Steve. Yeah. They don't wanna wait. You know, uh, they're, they're trying to run a business, and there's nothing like calling somebody at the corporate office that says- Yes "Uh, I don't really know. Let me get back to you." Yeah, yeah. That, yeah, what I'm on hold or I've gotta wait three hours or a week for an answer and so forth. Right. It's, um... Right. Yeah. It's not, it, it doesn't make it easy, of course. So can we talk a little bit about territories? And pr- you mentioned the word protected territories, and that's- Mm-hmm something I think, um, you know, many potential franchisees would be really interested in because the, the, it's one of the, or can be one of the bones of contention within, you know, the franchise industry, and that, "Oh, you know, John's- Mm-hmm stealing my territory. Mary's coming in on my territory," and so forth. Uh, you know, "But he's an old college buddy. I've done business with him for, you know, for years," sort of thing. So can you talk to us a little bit more about protected territories and why that's both commercially and psychologically important for a franchisee? Yeah. Well, the, the protected territory is as simple as no other franchisee is gonna come into your territory. So everything is mapped out. Yeah. You know, it's put together by, you know, population and the market demand and what the opportunity is there, also by physician data. So there's, there's some thought process put into a protected territory. It's not like you get four zip codes and here you go. Yeah, yeah. Um, and so we have close to, I think we're just under 400 available territories in the US, and we are all in the US. This, this franchise system is US-based only. Yes. Um, so you know, when you talk about commercially, it, it really, protected means their territory. It's just, it's that simple. Not- no- nothing's going to come into that territory and take it away from you. Our franchise agreements are five years, as long as the franchisee is compliant and working within, you know, system guidelines, and of course, they can renew, renew, and renew. So from the, uh, psychological side of it, there's, to me, it's trust and long-term security. That's the- Mm communication between a franchisor and a franchisee, that the territories that we establish, um, and the growth potential, we wanna make sure they're, it's clearly defined, and the area is able to grow based on the information that we've gathered with the population and the physician data. So in other words, we don't wanna put somebody into a territory that we don't believe that they're gonna have, uh, growth in their business. So there is a lot of, um, I would say thought process putting into the mapping and into our territories. Yeah. Okay. Let's, let's talk into, or talk about rather a, a, a potentially tricky area of your business, and that's compliance. In- You know, you and I were talking about it. My favorite. Yes. Yeah, we'll, we'll pause there for a moment just to take a deep breath. So, um, uh, you know, and I, from my marketing background, I know there are things you can and can't say when it's a highly regulated industry, and you're in a highly regulated industry. So, um, you know, y- and you've got several layers of it, right? You've got, you know, the, the FDA, the FTC franchise rule, the franchise disclosure document, and probably other layers that lawyers rub their hands with with glee. So how, uh, how, I guess how does... You know, no offense to... Actually, yeah, anyway. Um, how does, how does that regulatory environment change the way you build and sell a franchise system compared, you know, to a more traditional franchise, for example, the car one that you built? I will tell you it raises the bar significantly. Yeah. I mean, it is, um, one of the biggest challenges I've had in business, and I've been doing it for a while. So- Mm traditionally speaking for a franchise, you know, I was focused on brand consistency and, and operations and support. Those were my, my three things, my three areas that I put 80% of my time in. Mm. In pharmacy franchising, you know, you have to do those. I mean, s- I still have to- Yes look at brand consistency, operations, and support, but I gotta do that around healthcare regulations, and I gotta do that around licensing requirements and, um, patient safety and strict franchise disclosure compliance. So it's, you know, when you mix... I, I tell this to a lot of people, when you put FDA and FTC together in one sentence, um, it is, it is a very, very big... It's a daily challenge. Yeah. It's not, it's not something that just happens, um, you know, once in a while in business. I mean, I deal with it every day. So I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll finish on this. It's, it's systems and processes and documentation is our or my primary focus. H- you know, you got a system at your franchise system- Yes but you gotta have very clear processes And, you know, in order for this thing to, to grow, we all have to play nicely, and we also have to do it right. And so now when you have franchisees that are scattered throughout the US, you know, there's some complexity there because, um, we've gotta really stay close to them to make sure they're not stepping over the line. And that's just the high-end, uh, understanding of what the challenges are there. Yeah. Is that, is that hard to, or is that challenging to do, though? Or, or, or is it that, I mean, pharmacists obviously, you know, intel- ed- educated, intelligent people, and so they understand the regulatory environment and so forth. Mm. But is that a, a daily challenge to not get that wrong and fall, fall foul of the, you know, the, the authorities, as it were? Well, you know, nobody's perfect, and neither are we. Yeah. So, you know, I think I should start with that. But, you know, what we try to do is, I believe in over-communicating. Right. And so we over-communicate with the franchisees. Do they get sick of hearing the same thing? Sure. I just came back from a regional meeting in Texas, and they've heard it from me again, and they've heard it over the last three years. But repetition, I, I believe that people hear, but I also believe that not many listen. Yeah. So the rep- the repetition to make sure that they, yes, they do understand that based on, uh, the question that you asked me. However, there still has to be accountability that's put in place. Yes, yes. And we've gotta, we've gotta work that very closely with them. Yeah. All right, Mike, um, let's leave the, the PTSD of compliance, if you like, behind, and, and talk about, uh, talk about the onboarding process, in particular financial due diligence. And, um, you know, that can feel s- quite overwhelming to someone doing it for the first time, a franchisee for the first time. So how do you turn that, what can be a complex or, you know, difficult disclosure process into a trust-building conversation, rather than just another compliance hurdle they have to get over? Yeah. So, you know, the federal disclosure document is, you know, that's, that is the document that we try to keep that as transparent as possible. So it, it, it, the vetting process or that onboarding process to get somebody moving in to making that decision, life-changing decision, I'd like to add- Yeah in getting into franchising, is that we first try to make sure that you're a fit. So Steve, if you're a fit, we're gonna have you complete an application. And once you fill that application out, it's gonna provide me your financials, it's gonna pro- not financials, but your financial details. Yes. Um, what your business, um, has been like, your experience, sales, and so on. So once we get that app, we review it And then what we do is say, "Hey, we're... You look like you could be a fit." From there, we have an NDA because we've got trade secrets, so I wanna say to you, "Steve, I need to get this NDA over to you. It's a non-disclosure agreement." Yeah. And then I'm gonna put this big document in front of you, and I need you to really look at that closely because it's gonna answer at least 80% of any questions that you'll have, and I have to give that to you because it's a federal document. And then from there, you're gonna have questions, and we want you to have questions. We even want you to reach out to a franchise attorney and let them help you with this document. That is real transparency right there. So rather than us just trying to say, "Hey, here's a sales tool, and we just wanna sell you a franchise," it just doesn't work that way. So, you know, we're at a 60 to 120-day cycle of consultive- Yeah selling, if you wanna call it that, helping them understand the franchise world. And then again, if they don't have that pharma background or healthcare background, there's gotta be some discussions there as well. So the onboarding is of, is, is serious. From the time they contact us to the time they sign that franchise agreement, I mean, I've been known over the years to look a prospect in the eyes and just say, "Are you sure after everything you've heard and everything you've learned- Yeah that you want to move forward?" And I look for that, that acknowledgement, that commitment. And so, yeah, that's, that's kind of our process, how it works today. That, that's really interesting, the, the look in the eye kind of technique like that. Is that something that's just come naturally to you over your years of experience in the industry, to, to give a person I don't know. Uh, I, I guess it's a, a chance to stand on the merits of, yeah, I'm fully committed to this. I, I'm interested in that almost psychologically, how you come to do that and, and what it tells you. It's one of the funnest things that I get to do, actually. So, um, I don't do that to put them on the spot. Yeah. I do that because I want them to know that we're committed- Yeah to them. Yeah. And I need to know that you're committed to us, and I want you to look at me in the face and tell me that, and then shake my hand. And, you know, going back to being old school, even though there's an agreement here, I'm old school with a handshake. Yeah. You know, people can give you a handshake like it's... it looks like it's a yes, but inside they might be thinking, "Nah, I'm not gonna do that." So that's, that did come natural after selling franchises around the world that, um, US, even including the US, I mean, the US is no different, but- Yeah people are, you know, they're humans. And so I like just being direct and, you know, making sure that when they sign that agreement, that next week they're getting a phone call and we're going to work. Yeah. And I want them to know that. In- interesting. Has anyone ever gone, "You know what, Mike? No. I'm out." Has that ever happened in that moment? 'Cause that's, that's not the first thing you do, right? That's right down the end of, end of the process. Yeah. It hasn't happened at Galt, but it has happened in my previous life. Yeah, okay. No doubt about it. I mean, they just said You know, I'm just, I don't think I'm that confident in pulling the trigger. And I said, "Okay, well, that's fine. No problem." Yeah. "We'll stay friends, and if, uh, you change your mind, we're here," and, and left it at that and... But no, I mean, this isn't a pressure thing. Yeah. This is a- Yeah you gotta wanna do it. Yeah. Uh, can I just lean on your expertise for a moment, um, a- and, and zoom out from Galt for a minute and industry-wide? So, is there something that in, in your vast experience you've seen that, um, franchisors get wrong when explaining this whole process and going through that process? I'll call a... not a lot of new franchisors get it wrong because they don't know what they don't know, Steve. Yeah. You know? I mean, I've got a business and I wanna, I wanna franchise it. It works here. I wanna franchise it. But do they really understand franchising? So you go from an entrepreneurial mindset into, um, I'm going to go coax strangers. Mm. Right? I gotta build a relationship with a stranger. Mm. I'm basically partnering with a stranger. I'm gonna be living with that stranger, and I'm hoping that they follow my system. So, it's important that a franchisor understands that you have to have the right mindset to go into franchising, because if not, it's gonna cost you time and money. Um, you could e- eventually just shut the frame syst- franchise system down, which I've seen over and over and over again. So, you know, my, my whole thing in the past, and even with Galt, is, is that it's a challenge for the franchisor and the franchisee, and I like using this analogy. I like the airplane analogy with the pilot and the co-pilot. The pilot is, you know, he's the captain, and he to me is the franchisor. The co-pilot is the franchisee. You've got your, your, your, you know, your, your stewardesses and, and flight cabins, and all the people there are supporting all of the franchisees that are sitting in the seats on the airplane. But you're not gonna get on an airplane, Steve, if you walk into a p- onto the plane and you see the pilot and the co-pilot not getting along. Matter of fact, if they're throwing things at each other, fighting, you're probably not gonna go on that plane. Yeah. Yeah. So that synergy there, that communication, that from the very beginning is what I focus on in order to get them to understand that this is a journey. This is not something that's gonna happen overnight. It's gonna take a lot of work, and I just prepare them for that mentally to understand what they're getting into. Yeah. Okay. W- for, for a new business owner in particular, but one of the strengths of the franchise model is that, you know, they walk into a replicatable system that they can then pick up and run as a business. So based on your, your experience at, at Galt and, and, you know, your others, what has been the hardest part to systemize? You know, uh, and I... Can I ask you that in two, two po- um, two parts? One, zooming out, you know, from industry-wide, is there something across all businesses and franchises that's hard to systematize? And then into Galt, and what's been difficult to systematize with that. I mean, the, the... To me, the hardest thing is somebody that comes into a franchise business that they believe they have all the answers, right? Mm-hmm. Again, I, I use mindset a lot because- Yeah I don't care what you do today, I don't care if it's sports or if it's business, excuse me, you've gotta have the right mindset that, um, you're coming into this with something that is, that has some proven success. And we want you to follow the blueprint, follow the systems that are in place. And, um, the hardest part is getting that entrepreneur to kinda sit back and say, "Okay, teach me." Yeah. Just so you know, Steve, I was a franchisee as well at the, the... One of the lar- They are the largest cruise agency on, on the planet. Right. And I went through this as a franchisee, and this was in the last 10 years, and I did that because I was interested in that business, but more importantly, I wanted to see exactly what their process was about and how were they gonna change me, because I've had so much success in business. Mm. I had to basically sit back and say, "I don't know anything." Yeah. "Teach me." And if you're willing to do that, then I think that you can put all kinds of systems in place. I don't care if you're an entrepreneur, entrepreneur or not, there's, there's an opportunity to work with somebody who's humble and will- willing to follow, um, again, um, system standards that there's, there's success driving it from the very beginning. The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website, and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel Software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors, and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your 14-day free trial. Interesting question here about our humanity, because, you know, in the entrepreneurial world, ego is a real thing, right? You need ego to put yourself out in the world, to put it on the line, to, to risk and so forth. Is, is the human part of that, and I guess the, the ego part of the human, is that one of the biggest barriers to success in a franchise? Because like you said, you have to humble yourself in many ways to the system that you're coming into. So is that a, is that a big hurdle or, or a, almost a red flag for anyone coming in, going, "Hey, be aware of this"? Well, I'd like to answer this one way, but I don't think I'm going to. Um, yes, in regards to ego. I mean- Yeah everybody has an ego- Yes some larger than others. Yes. Um, but the more, I believe, the more that you communicate with somebody and directly and honestly, I think that you can, you know, bring down that ego, right? So I say it all the time that, with people, that, "Look, um, we learn every day," right? Would you agree? Now, I'm not talking to you, Steve, but I'm talking to others. But we learn, you learn every day, right? We're constantly learning. Mm-hmm. Okay, but when you come into a franchise system, it's the same thing. You're learning something that you're interested in, in order to build the business. So let's put our ego aside, you know, leave that, put that over on the desk with your phone so I get your undivided attention. And I think when you, when you talk with people like that, they know that you're, you're talking from your heart. They, they know that you're, you're confident in whatever, you know, system that you're, you're promoting. In our case, with Gulp, um, you know, we've just got a, a very good group of people, and we've got great products, but I think what really makes us different is just that we are really just honest with people, and we're just not willing to bring on anybody into our system that we don't think that are going to be a good fit for us. And that's a, that's a tough one when you gotta turn away to sometimes some people. Yeah. Uh, but that directness, I find, is better than sugarcoating. All right. Just on that note then, can we talk about who the ideal franchisee is for, for Galt? Um, is it an existing pharmacist who owns a store and wants a better model? Is it a healthcare entrepreneur that's got capital, capital but no pharmacy background? Is it someone else entirely? Is there a, I don't know, a pattern or a, a- an ideal person that you see? Um, there is-- I mean, we have, we have five target markets, um, or categories if you wanna call them that. I mean, all entrepreneurial-spirited, um, in healthcare. So healthcare sales, pharma sales, medical device sales, um, pharmacist, independent pharmacy owner. Um, these are the, the main targets that we are looking to grow the company with. And, um, you know, we're, we're set for the growth and the platform is ready to go, and it has been. But our message is pretty simple. You know, you're gonna, you're gonna keep your, your ownership and your local relationships, whatever you have, what you're doing today. Um, unless you're an investor, that's different. There may be no relationships there. But the other categories- Yeah they might have relationships. So we're not-- we don't want any part of that. That's yours. Keep it. Um, but you know, now you get a chance to be part of a, of a national brand and some local recognition to where you can add revenue streams, right? So if they're doing something else, no problem. Like as a pharmacy owner, we want them to run their pharmacy business separate from the franchise business. That's important. Run your pharmacy business like you do, but this, the franchise part of it kinda complements that, but you're gonna run that separately Does that make sense? Y- yeah, actually I was gonna say, well, assuming that I don't really know what that means because I don't really know what that means, can you explain the, the difference between those two parts of it? Yeah. So running the pharmacy business as an independent today, it's status quo, right? Let's say that we never approach them to, uh, look at a franchise opportunity. So their company, ABC Independent Pharmacy, they keep their name, they keep their business, nothing changes. Okay? Right. Yep. But then I go to that owner and I say, "Look, here's another revenue opportunity for you." Right? We've got these pain medications, um, you've got relationships with doctors, you've got reputations with, uh, or, uh, relationships with, um, clinics, and you might be able to use those to build your franchise business. Franchise business is a sales business. The independent pharmacy is brick-and-mortar, right? So that just stays as a retail. Yeah. But for franchise sales, you're talking about having a salesperson that's gonna go out and talk to doctors and, you know, promoting the product. So they are really two separate businesses entirely. All righty. So I, I wanna dive into or delve into a little bit more about your experience and, and how that helped when you came to the healthcare sector. So you went, you know, did some major parking recreation operations across North America before you went into the pharmacy franchising. So what did those industries teach you about building and scaling a national system that you wouldn't necessarily have learned from inside healthcare? Oh, boy. Um- Well, parking, the parking piece of it and the recreation was, uh, outside of franchising altogether. That was-- we, we built a very... You have it there, um, you know, in Austra-Australia where you're at as well, but parking reservations was not a big thing back in 2008, 2009. So, um- Yeah uh, my wife and I partnered into building our own software in that business and built it to be pretty large in North America. Franchising piece, what you learn-- But what I learned from that more than anything, I treated these clients even though they weren't my franchisees, um, airports, off-airports, cruise ports, you name it, but I treated them like a franchisee. Right. And I thought, you know, even when we built that business, is that, you know, if I ever did get back into franchising, that this is what I would do. You know, I'm not gonna overpromise anything, and I really didn't do that. But no overpromising, no under-delivering, right? Clear communication, um, and support these people. Now, we had simple software, and we have really good software today at Galt. But of course, not everybody understands technology, and some have more fear than others. Mm. So you gotta do what? You gotta help them. You gotta literally, I hate to say hold their hand, but if you really want them to use the tools that you have, then you're gonna have to spend a little bit more time with them. I mean, some systems are like, "No, we've trained you, and, you know, you're on your own." And I just, I'm, I'm just really hard set against not having that clear communication and supporting all the way down to the level of, you know, "Mike, we don't know what we're doing here. Can you help us with this and give some advice?" And, and sure. So a lot of coaching, I would say, that I've learned over the last 20 years with franchisees If I were to coach a t- a baseball team, um, I'm just not gonna, you know, coach a practice. I'm coaching during the game, I'm coaching after the game, I'm coaching the parents. And that's what I like doing in business, is making sure that we drill all the way down to help them at, at every challenge that they have. Yeah. Okay. I, I'm interested in your take on this one. We often ask on the people on the show, or our guests on the show rather, about hiring and firing, and what, what, what advice have you got for our listeners about the hiring process and picking people? And picking the right people is probably a better way of putting it. Are you referring to just within the company hiring people- Um outside of franchising or? Yeah. In general. Based, based on your experience, have you got some- Mm-hmm pearls of wisdom about, about working with and hiring people? Yes, I do. I mean, I And this isn't something that I really had to think about, but I, I hire on personality. I, I mean, I hire 80% on personality. I mean, I, I, I don't want this to come across the wrong way, but I, I really don't care how much experience somebody has. I need s- I need somebody that is that's willing to listen and that can talk to a tree by themselves. Because those people are invaluable to me, because they'll I can train them, and I can, you know, mature them into whatever it is that, that, you know, that, that I might be involved in in business. And then the 20% is their work ethic. Mm. You know? I, I, I just believe in that relationship piece so big, and I then I, I need to know that they're, that they're committed and they're gonna work. Because if I've got a good service or a product, it doesn't even fit into the 80/20 rule. I just I got a good service or I've got a good product, like at Gulp, and, you know, it when we when I look to hire people, I gotta make sure that that relationship with that person is not between me and them necessarily. Yes, that needs to be there as well, but I need to make sure that they're gonna rep- represent this company- Mm and that they're gonna do the best job they can. That's what I'm looking for. Mm. A- and are there, I don't know, markers or red flags? Are there markers as in yes, this is the right person, red flags, you know, maybe not you're not the right person? A very general- Yeah. There are question, I know, but I'm just interested to pick your brains on that. Yeah. There, there is, and I just wanna say my gut. And I say that because I, you know, my- My gut can guide me in the right way and guide me in the wrong way. Yeah. Um, but I, I read people pretty well and, uh, you know, I could really think somebody could be great and it just doesn't work out, and unfortunately, um, it was a wrong decision. But most of the time, if you, if you ask the right questions and you feel that the people are genuine, because that's what I'm looking at, is just somebody that's genuine in their answers, then, um, you know, I'm, I'm all open to, uh, to bring them into the company. But, um, there's nothing that really sticks out as a red flag other than- No you know, just somebody not being, you know, not being genuine, not being professional. I mean, those are gonna be red flags to me. But outside of that, you know... And I'll tell you, Steve, I'll, I'll, I'll tell you this. I, I'm a, I'm... This bites me a lot, but I'm, I'm a person of trust I trust people until they give me a reason not to trust them. Right. Right? So when I bring them on board, I believe in empowering and I believe in trusting them. I do not believe in micromanaging, tell them what to do. I'm bringing you on for a reason. Yeah. This is the job you're for. I think you're gonna be great at it. I'm gonna support you, train you, and do all of that. And, um, that trust factor and that empowerment to me is what's helped me, um, you know, build some companies with some success. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, Mike, can we talk about when Galt isn't necessarily the answer for an independent pharmacy owner? So someone might be watching this thinking, "Now my margins aren't working. I don't know how much longer I can keep going." So what's the honest conversation you have with them about whether Galt is actually the right move? I mean, I believe the right, the right step for somebody like that is I could talk to them and forever and tell them how wonderful we are, and that's not gonna, that's not gonna move them. What's gonna move them is connecting them to, you know, a few franchisees. Uh-huh. And let the franchisees tell their story, let them tell their journey, their challenges, their successes, whatever it may be. Mm. And then all of a sudden the wow factor starts, like, uh, "Well, I didn't hear that from the franchisor." Because the franchisor can't share everything with you, so that's- Yeah why we'll, we'll connect them with the franchisee. So that is the best, um, move to make to see if that's something that they wanna proceed with. Yeah. Is there someone that you actually say, "Look, this isn't for you"? Well, uh, uh, I haven't at Galt. Um- Right but I definitely did it in the car rental business and the car sales business. I mean, you have people that come to you that they, you know, their experience in the rental car business was renting a car at an airport. Well, that doesn't really do much for me. Yeah. So, you know, uh, it- it's tho- it's people that believe they, you know, they've been a C-level person, they've rented a few cars. How difficult can a car rental business be? In that case, yes, I, I turned away, um, probably 25% of the people- Yeah that came looking for a franchise. Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, a bit of a personal question here, Mike. What do you love about Galt right now as a business? Gosh, if I say this one more time, I think the founders are gonna just start wondering about me, but- Hey, repetition. You mentioned repetition before, so go ahead. It's the two founders. Yeah. That- that's the, uh... It is the reason why I'm at Galt today. These, these two guys are quite different, Steve. I mean, I've been around a lot in franchising, and I've never, uh, seen the involvement and the passion, the love for the company, the products, the people- I mean, you know, uh, I wish I could say that I, I was like them in another life, but I wasn't. But they are, um, they're different. And so when you have leaders like that that care as much as they do and that put in the time that they do, what is it... You know, as somebody that's working for them, it makes you wanna work harder, doesn't it? Yeah. I mean, that's just the way I am anyway. So- Yeah that is, uh, that's, that to me is pretty special to have something like that, and I, uh, I actually treasure the relationship. It's very good. Yeah. Okay. So that's the, I guess, the positive. What's keeping you up at night about Gult? Oh my gosh, that's my question that I ask franchisors. I ask that same question. I've been asking that for 40 years. Well, what keeps me up is, and it'll always keep me up, is the franchisees. There's nothing at Gult corporate, uh, or at GPS that keeps me up at night. Um, but what does- Mm when I, when I do wake up, I'm always, there's always a franchisee coming into my mind, and, you know, I've gotta take care of this tomorrow or I gotta, you know, I gotta call this person. And, um, and it keeps me up because, you know, I, like I said, I was a franchisee. Mm. And when you start ma- Mm you start spending money and you're putting your time into it, you're wanting that franchisor to really guide you along. Yeah. And they struggle. I'll, I'll tell you a real quick story. So in the cargo business, that's a 24-hour, 365-day a year business when you're operating airports. I got a call one time at 2:00 in the morning, franchisee was asking about buying certain sprinter buses, um, for pickup at the airport, 2:00 in the morning. I said, "This can't wait until tomorrow morning?" He goes, "No, um, I, I gotta g- I'm doing this right now. I need an answer." I said, "Don't buy them." Anyways, make a long story short, I saved them probably 2.5 million because the, the doors didn't work when the sprinter buses came out. But, see, it's that type of- Mm support that I even do with Gult today. My phone's always on. Unless I'm on a podcast or unless I got grandkids or unless I'm playing golf, call me and I'll take your call and I'll help you at any time. And they've tested me. They've called me on Sundays. I didn't think you'd pick up the call. Well- Um, here I am. So that respect right there is what keeps... If I didn't have that respect, it would keep me up at night. Yeah. Okay. All right, let's, let's look ahead. What's the, uh, about the bigger vision? So looking three to five years into the future, what does success look like for Galt? Well, I know what it looks like for me, but I'm not sure what it looks like for Galt. Um, so I, I'll share with you what I've shared with the founders, is that, um, I believe that if we, uh, continue on the path that we are with the products and, uh, you know, we, we keep refining our, our whole franchise system, um, and we get out there brand-wise and people are starting to know who we are, um, the goal here is to build a billion-dollar company. I mean, you know, we're, we're, we're in that range of 100 to 150 million. Yeah. And, you know, is that hard to do? Is it tough? Is it challenging? Sure. But, you know, to say, "Hey, we built a $100 million company today," I sh- I almost read about that every day. Now let's talk about building something pretty special. Let's build a billion-dollar organization, and that's what our, what our plans are. Wow. Okay. Fantastic. So, all right, to play devil's advocate a little bit, what's the, the biggest constraint standing between where you, where Galt is today and that bigger vision? It's outside sources. I mean, if there's the biggest constraint, if you talk about regulatory compliance, legal, um, any type of outside regulations, um, it could be as, as... It could be even the, you know, the whole problem in the world today. Um, so those are constraints, you know, because it could affect deliveries, it could affect, um, just the long-term success. I mean, you know, uh, we, we have a plan. Um, we have a three-year plan today with projections. It, it looks good, looks strong. But a plan is only as good as the ink on the paper. I mean, we don't have control over what happens, you know, outside of our company. Inside of our company, it's good, it's strong, it's a good foundation. Mm. But, you know, uh, honestly, only God knows what's gonna happen outside that could interfere with what we're doing. And I guess it's that old Mike Tyson quote as well, right? "Everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face." And so, um, you know, figuratively speaking, you know, there, there are plenty of punches in business, right? So- Yeah. Yeah. And so what you're saying is you're well-placed to, to withstand those blows and, and, and robust enough to, to bring the vision into reality. Yeah, we are. You know, and I, I came after the COVID thing. COVID, you know, you couldn't walk into a doctor's office for a couple of years. Mm. You know? Did that interfere? Sure. So something, you know... And, and to go back even further with 9/11, um, you know, for 90 days nobody was flying in the United States. I had hundreds of thousands of cars sitting at airports, and I couldn't rent them. So- Yeah those outside, uh, you know, things that take place, um, whatever it is Is where it could, you know, interfere with our plans. All right. Let's, um, let's dive into, finish with some quick-fire questions. So one of the things we do on The Business Game, uh, Mike, is to fire 10 quick questions at you to get to know the person behind the microphone just a, a little bit more. So are you ready to go? We ask you to answer in a sentence or less for each of these. Oh, boy. Yeah, I just can't wait to share this. Let's go. All righty, here we go. So number one, are you a buy a business or a build a business kinda guy? Build. Mm-hmm. I didn't expect that. Sarcasm there for sure, right? Based on your, on your, um, on your background. So revenue or profit? Revenue. Growth or stability? Stability. Hire fast or hire slow? Absolutely hire slow. Hmm. Control or scale? Scale. What's the one business decision you'd be happy to make again? The only business decision that I would be happy to do again is to make the right decision in business. No, I'm joking. Uh, I, I'd say, you know, I'm, I'm more patient, um, today in making a decision, and I think before it was just like reacting, and today, because I'm proacting, the decision process is, uh, is slowed down and the decisions are better. Okay. Um, question seven is a little bit, um... It's almost redundant because the question is, are you into franchising or building from scratch? Oh, boy, that's a tough one. I'm gonna have to go with franchising. Gee, there's a surprise as well, right? Yeah. Um, s- and again, the next one is probably very similar. Um, standardization or flexibility? I'm into standardization. Okay. Speed or compliance? Again, I think I know the answer to this one, right, given the industry you're in. Oh my gosh. Speed or compliance. I don't have a choice with this one. I'm gonna let you answer it. It's compliance. Yeah. That's, it'd be the old compliance genie in the bottle, right? We don't want that let out. Yep. So yeah. Yeah. And sales or build systems? Well, you have to have sales to grow a company, but I really enjoy building systems. Hmm, okay. All righty, our final question. Mike Harley, if business truly is a game, what's your definition of winning? My definition of winning is- Helping people, and the people that I help respond back in some fashion. Today, it's everything, text, email, it's not phone calls anymore, just to say that, you know, "Thanks for pushing me. Um, thanks for helping me, and if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be where I'm at today." All right, fantastic. And finally, Mike, where can people find you and Galt Franchise Systems online? I try to hide as much as I possibly can, but you can get me on LinkedIn. There are a few Mike Harleys out there, but, um, uh, definitely LinkedIn and then also, um, Galt, that's G-A-L-T franchise.com and the founders are there, I'm there, and if they wanna connect, they can definitely get me through there. All right, fantastic. Look, that's all we've got time for. So if you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game and check out the playlist for the level of business you're currently playing, because every founder is somewhere on the game board from zero all the way to over $50 billion. Choose your level, and we'll see you next time. Thanks very much, Mike. Thank you.