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They don't have running hot water. They all shower with a bucket. I had to go see a psychologist. I had to go on antidepressant medication. Absolutely have completely burnt myself out. You need to get help or you're about to lose your family. I lost 75 kilos. Oh, quite a bit, yeah. It's really funny 'cause I'm like... My definition of winning in business is making sure that everyone that works within my business is happy. You know, the cost of living is expensive and never put your eggs in one basket, ever. Diversify. Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels from zero to over $50 billion so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level one, which sits in the zero to $1 million bracket, the founder startup and survival stage. At this level, you're proving the model works. You're validating demand, refining positioning, and fighting for consistent revenue. The challenges? Doing almost everything yourself, hiring your first team member, and stepping from practitioner into CEO. The goal? Turn expertise into traction and build momentum that's repeatable, not accidental Welcome to The Business Game. I'm Steve Plummer. And I'm Kaleena Steno. Make sure to like and subscribe wherever you're watching or listening. Today we're joined by Natalie Roberts, founder of Tala Offshore. After spending 17 years building a career in public practice and corporate finance, including serving as CFO of a multi-million dollar international tech company, Nat took the leap into entrepreneurship to build something she couldn't find herself, an ethical offshore staffing business that puts people before profit. Today, Tala helps businesses build high-performing offshore teams in the Philippines, while paying well above market rates, investing in employee wellbeing, and proving that doing the right thing and building a great business don't have to be mutually exclusive. Let's dive in with Natalie Roberts. Nat, welcome to the show. Nat, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. It's, it's lovely to be here. It's great to have you- So- in studio as well, which is great it's been, it's been a long time coming. It has. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Oh. All right, Nat, so take us back to the beginning. So before Tala- Yep before your CFO roles, you know, what's your origin story? Yeah. How did your journey eventually lead you, I guess, almost into the building here today, right? Yeah. Yeah. Look, I've had, um, a pretty conservative, um, career, I guess, over time. So, um, when I was younger, I started off, you know, just in retail. Um, did a school-based traineeship in management. Um, then grew into management quite young. I was 18 at that time, managing around about 35 staff. Um, and then afterwards I was kind of like, "Okay, I really need to do something with my life." I had no idea what I wanted to be when I was younger, and I think- Yeah that's a, you know, when, when you're young these days, a lot of people know what they wanna do. I had no idea when I was younger. So I thought, "I'll do my Bachelor of Business." While I had young kids. Um, and then I went, I guess started off, um, as a junior in an accounting firm. Yeah. Um, and then made my way up to, uh, I guess a, an account manager there. So I looked after a lot of clients, um, a lot of businesses. So I oversee a lot of them s- you know, starting from scratch- Yes all the way and build- building up, and I was with that company for 14 years. Wow. So I had seen a lot of businesses come and go, go through the structuring, going through the growth, going through COVID, um- Yeah and I guess the contraction of the economy as well, and learning how to pivot really quite quickly in business and, I guess supporting businesses, um, in good times and in bad times. Yeah. Um, and then yeah, after 14 years, um, I needed a change. COVID really changed the landscape of accounting, um, especially here in Australia. Mm-hmm. Um, the pressures of, and I guess the, um, accessibility, um, I found that I was working All hours of the day Yeah, right Um, always there for my clients. And then it got to a point I was like, "I need to have a change." Yeah. And this is when I segued into then corporate accounting- Mm which is a whole different ballgame- Yeah, yeah in itself. Um, and so I remember doing it at uni going, "Oh my gosh, who, who would wanna do this?" And then I found myself an amazing local company and, and they've scaled, you know, hugely internationally, and to be a part of that has brought me to where I am today, and I still work for them. And then Talr is obviously born from that- Yeah Oh, wow um, as well. So- Well, well congratulations for taking- Yeah Thank you that, that for, um, wonderful career, taking the leap, having the courage to do that because- Yeah it's easier not to, right? Yeah. So- Oh, it's so... And, um- Yeah and, and, you know, before we started recording, like I am super conservative. I'm, I'm your typical accountant. Like your accountants. Yes. Yeah. I know, I know where everything goes. Yeah. And, and I guess for me it's, um, it's always having that belief of going, "Oh, goodness, can I actually put on the hat to be a business owner?" I had always looked after businesses- Yeah but I never myself went, "I can do this on my own." Like, my husband's got his own business, and I always help him out doing the accounting side. Yeah. But, you know, we don't have any staff or anything like that. He's a one-man band, so he kinda runs his own little thing as well. So I've never really had to put on, "I'm a business owner" hat. Yeah. Yeah. With all my work, I have always felt as though I owned the business. I gave my heart and soul to all the jobs I've had. Yeah. Um, yeah, so to step away and actually be that person- Yeah is very daunting. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause, uh, one of the things, and you'll know this, Kalina, as well- Mm is that when... And not to diminish the roles of accountant and CFO and all those things- Yep but when you're the owner of the business, you make decisions of consequence, right? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And, and that's a very different mindset. There was always a safety net when you're an employee- Mm right? Yeah. Ab- do you know what? Yeah. And it's really funny that you touch on that because I absolutely agree that there is a mindset as an employee versus a business owner. Mm. And it's, um... And a lot of businesses around the world will know that. Yeah. So it's, um- It's quite humbling as well to know that the buck stops with you. Yes. And especially in Tala. So I look at it going, I'm responsible for all these staff members. Yeah. Um, and keeping them employed and making sure they're okay and that Tala remains profitable so- Yeah we can continue to grow. And it's, it's that different stress that you- Yes take on and that you think of every night. Yeah. Yeah. As every business owner knows, you, you never switch off. Oh, yeah. It's that continuous- Yeah oh gosh, did I do this? Yep, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we'll, we'll get into that too and, and, and you're playing at level one, which is kind of compounding it, right, which is- Yep. Yeah the hardest part- It is you know, sort of to start up It's the toughest. Yeah. The grow. And, and I think as well, like I've, I've been fortunate enough to watch businesses- Yeah start from ground up and go through all the growing pains. And so, you know, when something comes up, it's not straight away that, I guess that thought of going, oh gosh, I'm doing it wrong. Yeah. Or, um, this isn't working. It's more going this is the natural progression of getting bigger as a company. Yeah. Yeah. And it's being able to pivot going, no, it's o- it's going to be okay. Mm-hmm. I think that's the main thing of I have that experience, I can reassure myself it's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've been sort of at least privy to a bit of that- Yes through helping other business owners- Yeah that haven't had to wear the weight of those- Yeah, exactly tough times. No, exactly. So it's kind of- And that's- Yeah, that's an advantage it is. And like I've always been on, you know, this side of the table saying, okay, well this is how we can navigate out of it and the financial side of it and the structuring. But actually in my head it's very different now going- You know, a- and w- I've got a business partner as well, so it's going, "This is what I think is going to work." Yeah. And then working it out together, because, you know, there's always mistakes made in business. Yeah. Um, and you just try and minimize them as much as you can. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. I'm interested, so when you said you, you know, you're, you're still working for- Yep. Yep. So you're gonna do... Which is incredible. What was the moment that you went, "No, I wanna start from scratch with Tala"? Like, start something completely- Yep outside of the- Yeah, are you insane? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. No, so, uh, my business partner, um, is also part of the business that I work for. Okay. And, um, so him and I had always been, you know, toying with the idea of offshoring. And, and I guess we had used offshoring in the current business that I work for. And so, and we found that the, there was, I guess, pieces missing of what we wanted to be able to do with our offshoring staff. You're, you're very governed by, well, these are the rules, this is, you know. Yeah. And, and we found that it really didn't work for our business. Like, we wanted it so, you know, that we could say, "Here's a birthday cake," and, um, "No, we're gonna do this on that day." But it turned into, like, to do something like that, it was just so hard. Like, it was... We found that there was so many roadblocks. And so we're sitting in there going, "Well, we might as well just start our own." And, um, we joked about it for months, and then I was always like, "No, it's too risky, it's too risky." Mm. Mm. And like, I would sit down with my husband at night and be like, "Oh, this is what we're thinking. What do you think?" Like, this is a, a big family decision to make. Yeah, yeah. Um, time-wise, but also risk and, and that kinda stuff. And so then one day, I was like, "Stuff it." Like, really, what, what could go wrong? Um, and I always think worst-case scenario. Worst-case scenario is it doesn't work. We have to then rehouse the staff somewhere, and then close it down. Yeah. That, I guess, is, that's worst-case scenario- Yeah isn't it? So, um, but we knew that it was going to work. Mm. I think that's the in- wholeheartedly, I knew that it was a really good business model to start. Wow. Okay. So what gave you that confidence? Mm. Um, I think the reassurance of me having the experience, um, and then trusting myself. I think that's a really big one, and, and- Mm a lot of business people would understand that, is going, "No, I can do it. I, I've-" Got the experience, and I think as well I had the support from my family. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, like my husband. And it's really funny because it's only just been recently I've actually told my parents that I've, I've started this. Oh, funny. Surprise. I know. And some of my other family members, they had no idea. Wow. Wow. So it was one of those things where- Hi, guys, if you're watching. Hi. I know. Hi, guys. Yeah, yeah. Um, it's one of those things where I like to achieve quietly. Yeah. I'm not one of those people- Yeah that, you know, go out and, you know, spread the word and, and yell it from a rooftop. Yeah. I'm, I'm definitely a, a quiet achiever- Mm um, that I do stuff for myself. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm a bit different. That's a bit of a rare quality in entrepreneurship as well, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It is. Yeah. It is. And like... And this is the thing, like I look at people who go out there and then, you know, they're, they can sell themselves and all that, whereas I just in my, in the background really then just slowly build. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. Very different. Yeah. That's amazing. So you mentioned that both you and your business partner had actually used the- Yep offshore staffing companies yourselves. Yes. Yep. Which is incredible. Yes. And so you saw a gap, you saw what you wanted to- Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So what were those experiences like? Specifically? Yeah. Do you have some examples? Yeah. It's really... So in accounting, so in my, in my previous role, we had used accountants, um, from the Philippines before. Okay. So I've, I've had exposure probably for like the last 10 years when it first- Mm started going out. Yeah. And it was really controversial of you off, you know- Yes you send work offshore and, you know, back then it was, um, very much a lot of our clients were, 'cause you have to get them to sign documents to say we're okay with you using offshore. Yes. And a lot of people refused to have their stuff done from overseas. Yep. Yeah. Um, and so over, you know, the last, you know, 10 years, that, that mindset has definitely changed in the market. Mm. There's still definitely hesitation. Yeah. Um, but I think the challenges we came up with was- We couldn't really direct the staff how we wanted- Yeah to manage them as such. Like, if we wanted to do something, we would then have to go through the management, um, at the offshoring company to get their approval, and then there was all these documents you had to sign. And then it just felt like there was so many roadblocks of us then being able to, to say to our team, "Hey, we're gonna do this." Yeah. Like, it's, um, yeah, it was... It felt really rigid- Yeah. Yeah I guess. That was the... We didn't have the flexibility of, we really wanted it so that our team felt like our team. Yes. Instead it was, you know, "They're our offshoring team," and like- Yeah it was just that- Yeah, okay. Yeah yeah, different feeling. So. I'm curious then, if that's sort of the experience that you're h- had- Mm and those roadblocks were kind of consistent- Yes. Yep what was it that Tala was able to get around to not have to have those things? Because if that's- Yeah you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 'Cause it was hard, and you've made it easy. Yeah. It's a bit really- So why did- Like, why- Yeah, why, why did no one else I don't know. Yeah. And I, and this is where- Yeah, good question it's really, really funny- Yeah, yeah because, like, I've been to the Philippines a couple of times and, and met the staff, and they're very, very rigid over there. So when we first started, I guess, touring business parks on where everyone was housed, uh, like working, it was such a, um, a really... I found it, like, a bit of a bleak, like, situation. Mm. And I was a bit sad 'cause I was like- Yeah "Oh my gosh, these people..." It's like an in- I guess you could say an industrial area kinda thing that was on the- Yeah outskirts of, like- Yeah Clark, and that kinda stuff is, is where you find a lot of the BPOs over there. And, um, I don't know. It was just- I knew we could do better Do better, yeah. Yeah Yeah. And it's, um... I think from that trip, we came back, 'cause we were looking at offices there. Mm. And we came back from that trip, and I was like, "I can't commit to that," 'cause it just didn't feel right. Yes. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So I, I don't even know what your original question was. No, no, that's- So, but- No, but you just- Yeah you just saw, okay, everyone's doing it this way, doesn't mean we have to do it that way Yeah or. And that's the, we, we wanted to be different. Yeah. We wanted it so our staff felt like, one, they're part of Tala, but actually more so part of the businesses that they were working for. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Included in the team. Like, they weren't just an afterthought. Yes. They were actually part of the team. And, like, how we work with the ones that we have for the other business is they're managed by all of our internal managers here. They're not managed by, you know, Tala themselves or the b- Like, it really was something that we wanted them to feel like- They were part of the company Because they are. They are. Yeah And they're a huge asset. I don't think people realize, like, how fluent they are in English- Mm-hmm how, um, talented and- Yeah how smart they are. Yeah. So, um, they really are not just an extension of the business, they really play a vital role- Yeah in a lot of businesses. So- Mm. Um, you know, we've got a range of people that, uh, like VAs, EAs, bookkeeping, payroll managers, um, tech support, general support. Um, it's such a... And I guess for us, like, being a business owner as well and watching other businesses, it's really hard to find some of that talent here, especially in Australia. Yes. Yeah. Um, and our wages here in Australia are extraordinarily high. Yes. Yes. Um, and so over there we pay above- Mm um, the standard rate over there. Because you hear horror stories where, you know, they're only earning, you know, $300 a month, you know? Mm. Um, which in context, like, to me, staff shouldn't just be paid m- minimal because they're overseas. Yeah. They, they should be paid a decent wage so they can support their family, and then also create something amazing for their family. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm. Energy in, energy out, right? Yeah. Oh, and this is the thing, I, I consciously wanna be able to sleep each night knowing that the staff over there are starting their own lives- Yeah and so they're not just a slave, I guess, to a BPO. Yes. That's the- Yeah I guess, the thing. Yeah, yeah. So- Yeah so what I'm hearing then is what drives you is the higher purpose of helping people. Mm. Absolutely. I think in life, like- To me, being conscious about other people and what their personal goals are, and providing them, I guess, an avenue to be able to fulfill them. Mm-hmm. I think that's really important. Like, especially like when I started working i- in the, in the company I work for, just little things I've been able to work flexibly, like- Yeah, okay. Yeah um, sometimes from home. I love coming into the office. Um, and being able to do that as well for the staff over there, so we have some staff that are remote, some are hybrid, a lot are in office because they love that. Yeah. So it's been that point of difference- Yeah I guess. And do you think Tala's then setting a standard for- I think so. Absolutely. I think a lot of BPOs, that, that, th- there's high staff turnover. Mm. Absolutely. Um, and it's, it's quite competitive over there as well. So once you leave one BPO, then you go to the next, and it's, there's so, there is so many. Mm-hmm. And, um, I guess our point of difference is we're really making sure the staff well-beings are a priority. Yeah. Um, we're not just a, "Here's your staff member," it's, it's really making sure that they settle in and, you know, you will see, like, uh, w- with us, we provide like a home care package, and that has nothing to do with, you know, on charging the customers for this. This is just something for Tala that we do personally for them. Yeah. Um- And what's that home care package? What do the staff get? Yeah. So like for our staff, so, um, it was such an eye-opening trip over there, so, um, it's quite common that, um, they don't have running hot water. Um, they all shower with a bucket, and then I guess like a ladle kind of thing to- Yeah to wash themselves. And I was blown away by how simple their life is and, and I guess one discussion I had with someone is their pay was so low that it wasn't a priority to have hot running water. And to me, I was like It blows my mind that that's even a thought, um, in these days and ages. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. So one of ours is that we provide a hot running gas system with a shower head- Oh for our staff. Wow. And to us like that, that's such a basic need. Like, people might go, "Oh my goodness," but that's a, a real truth over there. Yeah. So there's... Or if they've already got that, some are very lucky and do have that, it might be that they need air conditioning, so we get air conditioning installed in the house, because they share it with- At no charge to them. No charge to them. Wow. Wow. So, um, you find that a lot of their families all live together. Yeah. So and their, and their residences are quite compact. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So it's just little luxuries like that, um, over there, but it's not a priority for those families to have that. But you know, if you've got an air conditioner over there, you're pretty lucky. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. A lot of, a lot of friends suddenly probably- You do Absolutely knocking on that door. Suddenly everyone's coming over. Come on over. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you find that doing those things at home care, like is your, um, staff retention a lot better then? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So we, um- We haven't had anyone leave us. Oh, amazing. Wow. There you go. So- That's a telltale I mean, that there is, um, you know, amazing. And I guess for us, like, we look at it going, okay, if they were to stay, you know, five years, what would be the next thing? And I guess it's going, you know, maybe at 10 years we look at giving the family, like, a car or something like that over there. It's, it's more so that, you know, the more you can keep your staff, and I, and I guess with also their employer, whether it be in the US, in, in Dubai we've got people- Yeah um, here in Australia. We really want it so they're a long-term employee- Mm of that company. Yeah. Amazing. So can we drill down then in... Because level one, you're, you're still proving the model, right? Yes. Yeah. Things, things are, um, you know, they're in a state of flux, very much so. Absolutely. And so where, where my mind went with, with that, congratulations too on... That's a, a beautiful gift to give people. Yeah. I, I guess my business mind then went, well, that money has to come from somewhere. Somewhere, yeah. And you're in n- in an industry where people are going, "I don't wanna pay $15 now, but I'll pay 10," or- Correct "I don't wanna pay 10, I'll pay eight." Yes. Mm. Yeah. So how, and you're the numbers person. How- I am the numbers person. Yeah, good question how do you make, how do you make that work? Yeah. So with, with TALA, obviously, um, there is a monthly management fee for each, um, person, um, that we hire out. Yeah. Um, and so we don't, I don't take a wage from this company. We, you know, it's, um, all spent back on TALA. Um- Yeah. Wow it's been one of those things with a business partner, you know, we, we both have jobs- Mm um, so we don't need to take money out of the company. Right. Right. It, it really stays with our employees- Yeah um, over there. So it's, um, but that's something we personally have done. It's not about- You chose to do that. Yeah and it's, it's funny, we, we look at it very differently. This is not about making money for ourselves. Mm-hmm. It has never, ever been like that. We, we don't need to, um, have the money ourselves. And so being able to approach the business not out of that need- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah I think it makes it a really different perspective of- Mm we truly just want to make sure that we give our staff an amazing experience. Yeah. But also to be able to give our customers who, who hire them, um, peace of mind as well. We're not going to rip them off. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we do have management over there that oversee all of the staff. Right. Right. Like in the office- Yes we wanna make sure, I, I laugh 'cause I'm all about making sure everyone has lots of snacks. Um, so we fully make sure, like it's... And, and it's funny because- I, when I went over there and talking, I was just like, "Okay, yeah, we can have the kitchen there, we can have the snacks there." And then it was really funny, one of the staff members was just like, "Oh, um, are you gonna put a money box there so we can buy it?" And I was like- Wow "No." I was just like, "The biscuits and everything, and crackers, and, and that kind of stuff is there for everyone just to use, just as though it was here, you know, in Australia." And, um, they were really shocked because they're like, "Oh, in our old job, if there was biscuits, we used to have to pay for it." Yeah. Wow. And it's again, like, I was like, oh my goodness, they're such small little things to- Yeah uh, but they're so grateful. Yeah. And I think that's the, the, what I get out of having the business is I know how grateful they are, just those little things. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So- It doesn't take much to just, you do the right thing it doesn't. It really doesn't. It really just comes down to kindness. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the- Kindness instead of being greedy in business. So yeah, we don't take money out of it. We, we do, we reinvest it into our staff. Yeah. Yeah. This is- Colleen, it's very much John Fees and the social enterprise part of it, right? Yes, it is. A, a previous guest we just had. Yeah, I was just thinking that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. O- okay, so you're at level one. Yes. What's the bottlenecks at the moment? Because there'll be people listening to this at level one. Yeah. Um, you know, things aren't always smooth in business, right? Oh, it's, oh, it's not. And, and in the Philippines it is not smooth. Yeah. Um, we have really learnt that everything is very manual over there. Mm-hmm. So if you want to, um, start a business or open up bank accounts, you physically have to go in there with the paperwork. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing is done online- Yeah at all. Um, you, you have to go into your local council there, and- Yeah Yeah and because there is so many different provinces over there, so, um, we have our physical office where our staff go into in Cebu. Um, and so then we've got staff scattered throughout the whole Philippines. So like even just finding healthcare cover that does the full region. Oh, yeah. Um, you've gotta make sure- Yeah, right, yeah because their different provinces have different laws- Yeah I guess, as well. Of course. So it's, um, our biggest bottleneck for us has been having boots on the ground. So over there we need to have an accountant and solicitor, um, that is Filipino nationality to also be part of the company. Mm. Um, and that's the prerequisite from the Philippines law. Right. Um, and the government. So it's finding someone that you can really trust, um- Yeah and then they physically have to... So if I want to make a change on something, like applying, like for PESA and, and all that kind of stuff, you physically have to go in there. Mm. Um, another bottleneck is banking over there. Um, they don't have like how we've got Osco payment. Right. They don't have things like that. Yeah. Um, so I think it's just navigating how- Um, much time it takes to do something over there. Yeah. Here in Australia and around the world, like if you want to do something, you can normally have it turned around within 24 hours. Mm. Over there you gotta allow, like two months. Yeah. So I think that's- Wow the biggest bottleneck. Yeah. And, and it's, it, it was really frustrating at the start- Mm but now we're like, "Okay, well, if we wanna change something, it won't be done, let's say, till Christmas." Yeah. Yeah. So. I think it's an island thing. Yeah. It is. It's like island time. Island time. Island time. Yeah. Everything you were saying- I was gonna say that, yeah because I live in Hawaii, it is still very much that way. Oh, yeah. You have to physically go in. Oh, it's beautiful in Hawaii, isn't it? But you have to go in there. Yeah. Like, it takes, like- Yeah there is so much time between- Yeah getting something done. When you're used to immediacy- Yeah it's, it's a huge... And this is the thing- Yeah like even as a foreigner owning a bank account over there, you can't unless you- have an attached Filipino. Yeah. Right. So it's very, um... We didn't realize we were going to come up with those challenges. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was navigating those ones, going, "Oh, okay, then. This is what we've gotta do for that." And it's kind of a lot of, um, backwards and forwards trying to understand- Mm how everything works over there. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I guess the hardest part of that too is, right, there's no workaround. There's no shortcut. There's no little- There is no- tempting that, you know. There is not. You can't do anything about that. And, and you can't do-- And I think that was the most frustrating thing, is, um, you can't just go and pivot really fast over there. Yeah. Whereas you kind of really have to plan it out- because you can't just the next day go, "Oh, let's do this," because you, you can't. Yeah. You just can't. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So our bottleneck is just the, the slow pace that everything is done over there. Yeah, okay. So, yeah. Mm. It's okay. And, and, and so is that, like, almost an internal thing back here for you just to take a breath and go- Yeah a- and accept that you can't move things quickly? Yeah, you kind of, you kind of have to- Yeah, okay because it's, um, you're forced to go, all right, um, like with HMO, like it's the, the health cover over there. That is, in itself, like I wanted to, for example, I wanted to increase our HMO so our staff had a bigger policy that they could, you know, cover their family. Yeah I thought, "I'll just ring them up and I'll get it changed." They're like, "No, no, no." "You can get that changed in May 2027. You have to now stay." You can't just change stuff. Wow. Wow. It's, it's really... And that's a big eye-opener. So I was just like, "So I can't give my staff extra benefits now until May next year?" Until it runs out, the original runs out, and then you upgrade. Where you wanna pay more. I know, it's- Yeah. Wow It's wild I, it's, it is really wild. And so like here in Australia, if you wanna change your private health, you just ring them up, and then the next day you've got- And they'll go, "Give me money," you know? Yeah. Yeah, they're like, "More money? We'll see you." Yeah. So again, it... And it's, it's things like that, I guess, when it affects the staff- Mm that's when it's really, really hard, because you wanna make sure you, you give them absolutely everything you can, but then you're bound by someone else. I think that was the hardest thing for me to overcome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I imagine, I mean, you're kind of already explaining a little bit of the intricacies and challenges that you're being met with with trying to start a business in two- Yep basically, you're in two countries, right? Yes. Yep. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yep. Yeah. I'm curious about what it looks like, a little bit more in detail, of like securing, um, where you're gonna base yourself. Yep. How do you find your people? Yep. How are you doing all of that? Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause that's, that's a lot. Yeah. It was a lot. It was, it was a lot. It was, um, I guess, so our first trip over there, um, we were looking, I guess, where we thought all the other BPOs were located. So that was in Clark, which was quite remote. Okay. Um, so flew into Manila. I had never been before, so that in itself was an eye-opener. Yeah. Um, the traffic over there, my goodness. So, um, we went to Manila and then, you know, we, we took a really, really long drive to, um, Clark, and that's where, um, a lot of our staff originally were based. Okay. Yeah. Um, so we went out to dinner. We went karaoking with them. Fun. We... Yeah, I did not sing. Um- Oh, come on now. That's a no. What was your favorite song? Give us a few beats now. No. No, no. We don't want that. We want people to remain listening. Um, and so, and like I said before, it, it just wasn't, I guess, the feeling we wanted for our staff. Mm. Um, and a lot of them had been based there working- Mm and then they requested to go remote. Yeah. And so we let them go remote, and now looking back going, "Okay, now we, we understand why they wanted to go remote." Yeah. Yeah. So, um, we walked away from that trip going, "No, this is not the place for us," and we left it. We kind of was like, "Okay, let's just leave staff remote." Um, but then that also has its challenges as well of making sure the staff are working- Mm. Yeah because you still ha- Supervision. Yeah correct. Yeah. And if there's any problems and, you know, it, it's as well, like- I know what it's like to work from home, and you do feel a bit isolated. Yeah. Yes. Um, so we wanted to have, I guess, an office where they could all come together and have that office banter and, and- Yeah, the camaraderie and learn each, uh, and, and learn from each other as well. And so the second visit we did, so we actually hired, uh, an EA, and she was from Cebu. And then she was like, "You know, all the big tech companies are, you know, all their offices are over here." Hmm. And so we were like, "We've never heard of this." So then, you know, you start your Googling. Yeah. And then we're like, "Oh my goodness. Let's go there." And it was beautiful. It was truly... I think when I went there, um, it was just that s- uh, I felt really safe there. Yeah. Um, it's not as crazy. It's still busy. Um, but it just seemed right. Yeah. And so we, we've got our, um, office over there now, and so we will need to expand. We've already outgrown that office, but we're making do. Oh. Um, so um, yeah, I think for us it was finding that right place. That we thought would be amazing. Yeah. Um, and it is there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we sort of touched on the way that you're currently operating. You're not taking any money out- No neither you or your partner. Yes. Um, which I think is a fantastic- Yeah you know, you're putting it all back in. Um- Absolutely, yep. The long-term plan of that, though, uh, obviously, you know, you wanna expand, you gotta grow. Yep. Eventually it's gotta, at some point- Yeah We're gonna have to put money in well, it's go- and it's- Yeah but then at some point you're gonna have to get something back for what you're putting in. Is that a part of your, the plan, or are you- Um, at the moment, no. Okay. At the moment, no. Um, I, I'm just content with it running how we've got it at the moment. Yeah, well- Maybe retirement, I don't know, but that's a long way off. Yeah. I've always said by the time I'm 75, I think I'll be done. Yeah. Um, so we've got a while, we've got a while to go. So the accountant in her is just, you know- I know got all that sorted out I've got, I've got the number in my head. Got the number. Yeah. Got my numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, so at the moment, um, it's really not... I think the, the biggest thing is just hitting some milestones in the business- Yeah that, um, have always been a dream for me to hit. Okay. Um, on a, on a personal level, I think. Um, so at the moment that's my focus. Like, it's going, okay, when we hit, you know, this dollar figure and- Yeah and that kind. And again, it's, to me that's the successful part of going, okay, I feel like I've made it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Whereas at the moment I'm like, there is so much more scope- where we can grow into. Well, and it's still early. It's still early, right? Yeah. Yeah, still so early. Yeah. Like, we're, we're just over a year old. Yeah. Okay. So, um, but you know, our workforce, you know, has increased. I think I worked it out, just over like 220% in that time- Yeah, wow with the staff that we've got. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, and we don't advertise. This is word of mouth. Yeah. And it's, um, and I think that's a really powerful thing in business is when it's word of mouth. Yeah. Um- It's the most valuable the, the best, um, I guess, compliment any business can get is a referral. Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so what markets again do, you mentioned it before now, but what markets again do you serve- Mm as Paolo? We really do worldwide. Um, so we've got staff, um, in the Philippines who do, um, like, I guess night shift to accommodate for our NAEMA region. Yeah. Um, then we've got the APAC region, then we've got obviously Europe and that kind of stuff. So we do, we've got all around the world. So we've got- And in- US market yep, in industries of finance and- Yeah, so our industry is, um, finance. Um, a lot of EAs and VAs for, um, the businesses that, I guess, I, I'm the same. I'm at the point now where I'm like, do I get someone to help me as well? Um, then- A lot is, like, bookkeeping, um- Yeah accountants, payroll specialists- Yeah um, support staff. Tech support, um, is a big one- Yeah over there. Um, so it's really a, a full array of, um, people that we supply. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so what tech stack have you chosen- Hmm to run the business? See, I'm really lucky that's not my domain. So if anybody knows me- I am not the greatest with technology at all. So- Unless it's a spreadsheet on my old old zero ledger if it's, give me a... Do you know what? Give me, like, any accounting software any day- Yeah and I can do it with my eyes closed. Uh, give me, like, a laptop that doesn't work or a mouse that doesn't work, I'm, I'm useless. Mm-hmm. So, um, at the moment in Australia, um, so obviously we've got two businesses. So we have the Australian-based Tala business- Yeah which obviously is the one that goes out and, um, supplies the labor to the Australian market- Yes and the international market. Yes. Um, and then we've got, obviously, the Tala in the Philippines. So they work together, however, that's who hires- Yeah the, the Filipino staff. You have to have a Filipino company. Yes. So the Australian side of it is, is really simple. So, um, we use Xero and we use HubSpot. Um, that is our two dedicated ones. Yeah. Um, and then over in the Philippines, um, we use QuickBooks- Okay and we're using, it's called Easy Payroll Software. Okay. Yeah. So, um, that- they're our current ones. I'm very much, uh, keep it basic there. We don't need to go crazy and, and, you know, and they can grow with us. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think that's the biggest thing that, um, I always look at, and I've always said this to business owners, set it up right the first time- Yeah so then you don't have to go and change it later on when you're too big. Because when you get to a certain point in business, switching over a CRM system or- Yeah or a, a real core thing in your business, it's- Mm it's extremely hard because nobody likes change. Yeah. So if you've had someone, you know, using one software for, like, 10 years and then you turn around and say, "All right, we're gonna switch to this," the, the, the stress that it causes- Yeah on the staff- Yes is significant. Yeah. Yes. So- Yeah set it up right the first time. That is- Yeah definitely my advice. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're, you're good to go to expand and really grow as a company. Yeah. Yeah. The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel Software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors, and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your 14-day free trial. I- I've got a question around hiring. Now, this- Mm-hmm y- you might be at a level above where the hiring takes place on the ground in the Philippines, but- Yes have you got any tips for listeners- Mm especially in the startup phase- Yep this level one phase, about hiring people and, and decisions around hiring? Yeah. So I guess from a business perspective, like if I was to put my accountant's hat on, um- You can never get rid of that, can you? Like No, you never get rid of that. I don't think you could shake it out of me. Um, so I guess what it comes down to for me is when you are still at your desk, you know, at 6:00, 7:00 at night because- Wow you haven't got through your work- Uh-huh and that stress of not being able to switch off- Mm and any business owner would understand that. Yes. Yeah. That is when you need to start going, "I need help." Yeah. Yeah. Um, and a lot of business owners, and, and I'm very guilty of it, of me going, "It's easier if I just do it myself." Yes, yes. You said no one ever. That plays in my mind. Yeah, said no one ever, right? Yeah. It is not easier- Yeah doing it by yourself- Mm when you run out of time to play with your kids or when you don't have time to spend time with your partner. Um, if you are slaving away in your business, that is the time when you need to make a change. Yeah. Yeah. Um- Yeah you shouldn't be a slave to your business. Yes, at the beginning, um, but there comes a point in time where you need to relinquish and go, "What are some things that I can give to someone else that's going to make my life easier?" Mm. And it might just be that you need someone to monitor your emails. You need someone- Mm to schedule all your meetings. You need someone to remind you to send flowers to your partner, or birthdays. You just need that support person, and it could just be a, a, as simple as, for example, in accounting, you might need an admin person to look at all of your mail and draft all your letters to your clients. You might need to, say, um, like sending all the emails and the follow-ups, and it's little tasks like that that hamper you. I know I'm a slave to my emails, and I've recognized that. Mm-hmm. Mm. Um, so it's me at that point going, "I'm going to need help soon because I can't do this." So my weekends at the moment, again, startup phase, and I am a bit of a slave to my emails. Yeah. I have them on my phone. I check them all the time because sometimes I'm like, "Oh, it's easier if I just deal with this now-" instead of waiting." Mm. Right? Mm. And we're all guilty of that. Mm. Mm. And I think that is a trigger point of- And, and a huge one is my kids, they turn around and say, "Oh, you're working again." Oh. Mm. Yeah. That there to me, I was like, "Ooh." Yeah. W- is that hard to shift though and let go of? Mm. It is. I'm a control freak, and I am- Yeah, really? I... Yeah. And I'm really, really honest about that. Um, but I'm also- Thank- thanks for clarifying that I know we would not have known, right? Yeah. I'm also one as well, I've been brought up, you know, I'm an, I'm an '80s baby. I've watched my mum and dad work really, really hard- Yeah to provide for us. Um, and I'm a true believer in hard work. Like, if you really want something, you need to work hard at it. Yeah. And I feel as though, like- Mm if I was to get someone, I wouldn't be working hard enough. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But I've also come from a point where I get really overwhelmed because I don't wanna let anyone down. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's that pressure as well on myself, and you can't, you can't do everything, and I've actually learnt that in my new role. Like, in, in the business I'm employed as a CFO, I wanna... I- I'm a yes person. Mm. And I've learnt and, you know, my business partner is like my mentor, learning that it's okay to ask for help. Yeah. I think that is the biggest lesson I have learnt. Yeah. Mm. It's okay to ask for help. Yeah. Yeah. There's that mentor thing again coming up, Coleen. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that- It is. That comes up again yeah. Yeah. Again and again. Yeah. And I never really had anyone- Yeah and I didn't think I needed that person, and you know, when I'm stuck even in, like, just personal decisions, I just throw it out there and ask. I'm like, "What would you do?" Mm. Like, it's, um, having that sounding board that's not in your family realm because unfortunately you're going to have people in your family that wanna bring you down or not see you succeed. Yeah. Or there's friends where they're kind of like, they, they don't quite get that. They're not, it's not that they're not on your level, but they don't understand what you're trying to achieve. Yeah. And it's having a business mentor that- has kind of been in that landscape before- Yeah that you can bounce it off and- Yeah and I guess as well, like, learn from their mistakes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, they can, yeah, lean into what- Yeah they've experienced. Yes. Again, John, John Fay's mentioned that, right? Yes, he did. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I don't wanna make- Learn from others I don't really, it's better to learn- Mm off someone else's mistakes than doing it all over again. Yeah. And, and we're a big believer with Tyler as well, don't reinvent the wheel. Yes. Like, there's so many other- There's a blueprint there, yeah there's a definite, there is a definite standard blueprint. You can always put your own twist on it, but never reinvent the wheel. Mm. And that's a big one, 'cause I think a lot of people, when they go out to start something new, they're like, "Oh, I'm gonna make this new thing from scratch," when the- Yeah the, the world's pretty big- They're everywhere and there's normally something out there that you can pull from. You can even pull a few pieces- Absolutely together and not- Yeah have to do all that extra work and learning. Well, and that's the thing as well. Yeah. Like, and if it's a proven track record that it works- Yeah why would you change it? Yes. Why, like, I'm a big thing, if it's not broken, don't fix it. Yes. Mm. Like, I really just don't. Yeah. So it's, um... I think that's a really big motto that we live off of. Yes, you can improve it- Yes and tailor it to how you envision it, but don't change the blueprint at all. Yes. Yeah. So leaning back into the multiple hats. Yes. Which you have to wear a lot of, especially a little one. I wear a lot. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So what does a typical week look like for you? Yeah. 'Cause I'm interested in that. I'm interested in that as well, huh? I'm a little bit crazy. Yeah. Um, so a typical week for me, look, I, um... I'm supposed to be part-time in my, in my day job we'll call it. Yeah. Um, I definitely wholeheartedly see it as my business even though I'm not, but I, I still see it as my baby, and I'm very protective of it. Yeah. Um, so I normally try and work, um, Tuesdays through to Fridays, um, roughly school hours. Yeah. Um, which is never the case. Um, I come into the office on Tuesdays and Thursdays, um, mostly for meetings and things like that. Yeah. My, my days of power is my Wednesdays and Fridays, where I try not to have meetings, and- Yeah you know, I get through quite a bit. So, um, I juggle a lot. Mm. So within that, I guess, where I'm working at the moment, there is multiple businesses across, um, that I manage. Okay. Um, and I've stepped away, I guess, from the day-to-day, um, stuff. Okay. It's more the higher level decisions of the overarching, um, goals of the company. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Um, which I love to do. So that's like that part, and then normally Tala is then during the days as well, but then mostly at nights- Sure and Saturdays. Yeah, right. So- When there's spare moments when there's a spare moment. I know. It's terrible. But- um, I have a very busy life, so- Yeah um, I'm up early. I try and be bed, in bed by 10 each night. So, um, I'm, I'm very, very structured. So I do not veer off- Like, what I do each day. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, that probably helps you- Yep keep on track. Absolutely. Yep. You, you wouldn't- Consistency is key. Yeah wouldn't be an accountant by any chance, would you? No. Yeah, but I was like, "It's not lining up." No. No. So- Yeah what would you say is one of the hardest hats that you wear to take off? Do you know what? Being a mum. Oh, yeah. Mm. I can feel that. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Um, being a mum, running a household. Yeah. Um, my cleaner just, um, quit as well. So I've had to take- Oh, my cleaner left the country- Oh, no and it's devastating. Um, her business is growing and I, and, and again, like, as devastated as I am, I'm so happy for her. So, um, and she stepped away from doing the day-to-day stuff. Yeah, yeah. But, you know. Anyway. Um, but yeah, being a mum, I guess that never stops. So I have a 14-year-old and a 12-year-old. Okay. Um, they have all their extracurricular activities- Yes I need to fit in. Um, I do all the cooking. I now do all the cleaning. I support my husband in his business, so I do his paperwork. Wow. Um, I've taught him, though, how to use Xero- Love it and how to invoice. And so if anyone can, you know, do that- and it's him, it's, we're good. And so I guess it's making sure that I have time for them. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I never switch off, um, with them 'cause I'm like, "Oh, have I done that paperwork?" 'Cause kids are, it's never-ending. It's going, "Okay, this weekend we've got cricket training." Yeah. "We've got birthday parties. Have I got birthday presents? Have I got-" This, have I got that? We've, you know, had one's been sick. One, the other day, decided to skate ramp, chip his whole tooth, so my Monday night was spent emergency at the dentist getting his front tooth fixed, and it's, um, a hat that you never, ever take off. Yeah. Yeah. And there's always surprises. There's always surprises. Uh- I think I've got a punch card for the emergency room now- with my son. You know I- There's so... He's only four, and I'm- I know. Yeah. Oh, you've got a, you- You've got a long way to go. I know. I'm like- Speaking of which, you've got the glorious teenage years to get through as well. I know. I know. Yeah. Look, I, I, I think we've raised some pretty cool kids. Um, they've, they've seen how hard that, uh, my hubby and I have worked. Yeah. And, and I think what I've definitely instilled for them is hard work does pay off. Yes. Um, and you have to give up some stuff to give it your all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so my kids are very aware that if they want something, they have to work hard for it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not given to them. No. Yeah. Absolutely. Mm. Now, I think there's a hat that may have not been mentioned yet. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So one of the things you- have avoided, Nat- Yeah is that you are an accomplished bodybuilder, right? I am. And, and by accomplished, we mean international success. Yeah. Yes. And- Tell us about that. Where did you fit all that in? In my spare time. Yeah. Um, yeah, so I hold, uh, my professional card in, um, women's figure bodybuilding. Yeah. Amazing. Um, so in my spare time, I, I get up at, um, 20 past 4:00 each morning. I train early. I also train late at night, so it is like a full-time job. Crazy. Mm. Um, I am in my what we call an off-season at the moment. I'm just, yeah, it's not as rigid. Mm. Um, I still eat, again, I still weigh my food. I still do. Oh, wow. I'm very, very rigid in that. Um, yeah, so I cram a lot of things in my life. Mm. Mm. It's my outlet. Yeah, okay. And I think that's a huge thing for any business owner is, you know, when I had the kids, um, you give everything to them. Like, I didn't have any time for myself, and as they've gotten older, I've been able to, you know, start having a life again. Fun. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sort, sort of. Yes. Um, and I needed something for me 'cause I felt like I lost my identity. Mm. Yeah. And, um, a lot of people that do know me, like, um, in, in those years of becoming a mum, I packed on a lot of weight. So I was over- It's easy to do I was over 125 kilos at one stage. Wow. Um, so I've lost, I know hard work, I- Yeah Wow lost 75 kilos. Wow, that's a whole person. Yeah. That's a whole person. A lot of, yeah. So again, like, I guess I'm very, very determined. Wow. When I have a goal- Yeah in my mind- Yeah of what I wanna reach, I will get to it. Yeah. And I don't care how hard I need to work for it. So I've been through the ups and downs, the emotional rollercoaster of, you know, being this overweight person to now a successful competitive bodybuilder. That's incredible. Um- Uh, are you gonna do a pose or two for us? Oh my gosh, you're so evil. Maybe at the end when we check out. Maybe. Maybe at the end. Maybe at the end. I'm gonna take my jacket off. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So at risk of emasculating myself- Oh, exactly are you gonna do a couple of poses for us, right? It's funny because i- in, with my kids, they're just like, "Oh my gosh, Mom, everyone's looking." And especially when I'm just about to get on stage. Yeah. Oh. Um, I'm very, very vascular when you've got- Yeah, yeah, yeah no, I got down to 3% body fat- Oh, wow to get my pro card and- Yeah, yeah Wow you know, and, um, everyone does look at you, and especially when you've got, like, your, your really orange tan- Tan Tan, yeah, yeah, yeah and everything. It's very, very sexy. Yeah. Um- You're like, "Yes, I know what I look like." Yeah. Very, it's very, it's a very expensive sport too, just an FYI. I imagine it would be. So, but- Yeah it's, um, it's to me that personal achievement. Yeah. Um, I was like, "I need a challenge." Mm. And never in my wildest years, and neither did my coach, when I said, "I wanna get on stage," he was like, "Eh?" And we've just worked really hard for seven years. Wow. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I think talking to you, originally we started this conversation saying, "Oh, no, you don't, you're not, like, a traditional entrepreneur," but I think you are. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause you- A closet one, right? A closet one. Yeah. Who's now coming out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause do you find that- Yeah stacking your schedule actually keeps you motivated? Do you find, 'cause I, for me, I'm in the pits of motherhood at the moment, young kids- Yeah and all that. I feel like- The bloom it's kinda- Off the bloom. The bloom. The bloom. Sorry. Yeah, not the pits. I love that. Yeah. Come on, Steve. No, definitely the pits for the, the pits for the mum. I always say we're the default. My 4:20... Yeah We're the default parent- My, my 4:20 AM- pretty much all the time wake-up is my 18-month-old. Yeah. It's noth- it's not, not for my pleasure. It's not by choice. No. No. I would love to do that, go to the gym. Yeah. But, um, but my- Takes years. Yeah, but, like, and so there's not really, uh, a lot of time for me to cram other things. Yep. And so I feel like that emptiness- Yes makes it almost, I'm not lazy, because I'm still on, but, like, it... I absolutely- Do you agree with that? totally resonate with this. Yeah, okay. So I've, um, gone back to bodybuilding, so I used to train six days a week, right? Wow. And so now my coach is like, "Right, we're going to implement two rest days." Now, it's a running joke, on Wednesdays it's my stretching day. Now, I feel so unproductive- Yeah and feel as though I'm not achieving anything. However, I know that I need to take that to recover. Yeah. Um, and so that has actually been a real big mind shift for me. Yeah. As in a really, really hard one to go, it's okay to take a step back- Mm for a little bit. Yeah. 'Cause I know in time, it, that will change. Yeah. Um, and I think, you know, I am so very structured, like, I kid you not, at 8:00 AM every morning, I eat my breakfast. At 11:00 AM, I eat my morning tea. At 2:00 PM- Ooh like- Bit chewed into that thing. I know Sorry. I know. Yeah, whoops. It's gonna be a problem. If she gets angry- I'm gonna get out of here real quick we're actually facing the music So incredibly structured. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's really funny, like, at the gym, like, in the morning, I meet my girls there, and they know that I will be there at 5:17 AM. If I'm not there by 5:30, they're messaging me going, "Are you okay?" Yeah. Because I'm one of those people- Yeah unless I am dying, and I mean unbearably unwell, I will turn up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's with everything, with my work, with everything. If I say I'm gonna do something, I do it. Amazing. But very structured. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Nat, just a question on that. Do you think you risk burnout? Because that's- Mm something that I think is- Mm i- is, you know, inherent with entrepreneurship- Yep in general. Do you, do you feel that? I've been through burnout. Okay. Yeah. I have been through burnout end of 2023. Okay. Right. Um, I absolutely crumbled, um, to the point where I had to go see psychologist. I had to go on antidepressant medication. Absolutely have completely burnt myself out. Yeah. Yeah, wow. Um, and that is when- I realized, I think what it was is that I was always searching for the next thing of I'm not good enough. Mm. Wow. I need to do something else to prove myself. Mm. Man, I can feel that. Um, to other people. Yeah. Um, and I think what I really learnt in that period of time, which was really scary, like, I still remember my mum in the car. We went for a drive, and she goes, "You need to get help or you're about to lose your family." And I still remember that conversation, thinking, "There's nothing wrong with me." And then when I really looked back, I was like, oh, my goodness, I am an absolute mess. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and when I reached out to my doctor to get help, I didn't believe in this whole burnout thing. But then I realized, like, at the beginning when my, the kids were young, like, my husband worked away in the mines, so I was sole parenting for- Talking to myself. I was sole parenting for two weeks on, and he was home for four days. Oh, dear. I didn't expect it to go here, Cora. No. I know. But it is, it, I felt so isolated, and then I ate to emotionally cope. Yeah. Because I felt as though that was my only coping mechanism. Yep. Um, I felt like I was never doing enough, like, and I was working at this time as well. Yeah, yeah. I was taking my kids to work. I just, no matter, I was studying at uni as well. Yeah. At nighttime, so at, you know, 2:00 AM I was up writing, you know, the last day I've got to submit my assignment. Right. Mm-hmm. That was me- Cramming cramming. Yeah. And then I got to 2023 where I- Didn't know what was wrong. I knew something was wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I tried to bury that going, "I'm okay." Yeah. And then I just kept filling my plate up more. I think because- Yeah because to admit it is weakness More and more and more. Yep. Is that why? You, you saw- Yeah admitting it as weakness? Was that- Yeah. It wasn't that. It was more so that, um, I refused to let, I guess, something medically stop me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I felt as though I had let my body down by gaining all the weight. And so then for me then to recognize going like, I had burnt myself out, my body's letting me down again, um, I think that was my mentality. Right Until it got to a point where, you know, I was having really bad anxiety attacks, like panic attacks, just on the floor, couldn't breathe, the, the heavy chest. Yeah. And I think when I went and, you know, got help, um, and it took about nine, 10 months to really come back to old Nat. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's what you could say. Yeah Um, where she was fun and all that kind of stuff. So- Yeah um, I've learnt the signs now. I, I definitely don't have as full plate as what I used to. Yeah. I was gonna ask you, what have you changed to make sure that doesn't happen again? I was also gonna ask- Yeah and take notes. Yeah. It's, it's really... And, and it's, I guess I've... It's more the control issues I've got. Controlling- I don't have control issues. Yeah. Let's, let's move on quickly. Yeah. Controlling, and, and I always felt like I needed control of the uncontrollable. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, however, what I've learnt is that sometimes things happen, and you gotta let 'em go. Mm. And another big one was, is not to care what anyone else thought. Yeah. Yeah. And that there was huge. That's a big one. Because I always felt... And like, we had an amazing childhood and all that, and my sister is very, very successful as well with owning her own business, and she had always known what she wanted to be and that kind of stuff. Mm. And I always felt like the kid that didn't know- Yeah. Yeah what she wanted to do. And I felt as though I had to prove to everyone that came in that I was something. Yeah. And I think I've learnt, and as I've gotten older as well, I'm kind of like, I don't care anymore what anyone else thinks. Yeah. All that matters is how I think about myself- Yeah and how, um, my kids also see me. Mm. Um, and so, like, they, they don't see half of the stuff they do, like- Um, they just know that if they need something, Mum, Mum will always make it work. Yeah. And I, and I always do that, and they will always be my priority. So if I feel like it's getting a bit overwhelming, I do, I'm like, "Okay, what can I stop?" Yeah. Yeah. And that is going, "All right, I, I need help in the business with my emails," and that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. It's like recognizing, okay- So, so recog- So it's, yeah not stacking more on- Not stacking- take something off correct. That self-awareness thing. And it's trusting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It is. It's that self-awareness- Yeah and trusting your own instincts of going, "I need help." Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And that was, uh, I guess as well- Yeah like that step for me, like I knew- Mm in 2023 when I had hit a really, really bad part in my life, I knew no one else could help me but myself. Yeah. Wow. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Mm. Mm. Oof, this is- Oh, getting deep? I feel like I'm talking to myself. No, no. This is incredible. This therapy session for you, Laura. I know. It feels really- I'll, I'll invoice you. Yeah, yeah. Yes. All right, I ask the questions. I know. You do. Yeah. I know. You definitely do. Yeah. Um, okay, before we get to the quick-fire questions- Yes um, and let you get to your 11:00 AM- I know delayed meal. Food. It's okay. Yeah. Um. Got the angry answers wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Told angry answers wrong. Um, leaning into everything that we've sort of talked about and your experience with Tala, and then across everything that you've learned working with other businesses- Yep what advice would you give our listeners that might be sitting on the edge of starting a business, or in the, the beginning of level one? Yep. What would you give them? Um, my biggest thing is have a plan. Yeah. Actually have a plan and talk to someone about it who has done it before. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily, um, you know, someone in exactly the same field, but it's actually speaking to other business owners going, "What do you think of my idea?" Yeah. Um, and as well- Get actual legal advice and accounting advice, just structuring- Yeah um- Yes Yeah what works for your family. And I think that's also a really big key is if you were going to start a business, what effect is that going to have on your family time? Yes. Have an open discussion with your family, so I did that with Tyler. I'm like, "If I start this, I'm going to have to go overseas." Mm. "I can't take you guys. Can you get to school on your own?" Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's being really realistic about the situation. Are you going to be without income? If you are without income, how are you going to survive? So I think a lot of people go, "I'm just gonna do it," and some people have the balls and they make it work. And you hear about, you know, all these kids on TikTok and, and social media who have built incredible empires. Mm. But that's like .001% of the population. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And I think especially young entrepreneurs that I'm seeing, you gotta work hard- Yes at it. The small minority of you getting to those levels, unfortunately, it's very, very hard- Yeah unless you're in the AI realm and e- and even that now, AI is- Yeah building its own stuff. It's a business within a business. It's... Yeah, it's gonna get swallowed up. Yeah. It's been really realistic and, and I've been around businesses quite a lot- Yes where they're like, "Yep, by..." They do their projections, "And by this month I'm gonna be doing this and then this." Be actually realistic- Yes. Yeah um, about your figures because at the end of the day, figures never lie. Yeah. Numbers never lie. Yeah. Mm. It's an international language- Yeah numbers. Int- it never changes. Debits and credits, same thing. And, and really you wouldn't expect that to come from an accountant either, would you, right? No, no, I was, I think we, we've started where we- Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Actually, just before we do go, quick fire questions. One thing that's been on my mind, have you got some tips or advice for people who are looking to go offshore- Oh, yeah. Good question um, about what they should ask or not ask, do or not do to hire offshore staff? So, um, if you are looking to hire someone through an offshoring company, is that really the, the, the side of it for me is sit down with a few actually. Mm. Okay. Yeah. Um, you know, you, it's sort of like when you go to find yourself a, a new doctor. You've gotta make sure you fit with them as well. That's true. Um, so not all are going to see how, I guess- A big thing I've always said is you can never put a square peg into a round hole. Yeah. Um, you have to feel comfortable with those people- Yeah um, to know that they have your best interest at heart. Mm. Uh, so do shop around. Ask questions. So what do you do for your staff? Um, you know, what health do you have for your staff? Can I offer them anything else, bonuses? And I guess it's, um, questions are really, really powerful. Um, and again, like I, I don't have anyone else that I know that owns an offshoring company, so I can't ask them questions. But I've worked with offshoring team members, and it's asking them, going, "Well, what do you guys want?" Yeah. Mm. Like it's, it's also asking, um, questions. Yeah. Mm. Taking the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what do you want for your business? Yeah. I think that's the thing. How, how do you want your staff to feel in the business? And then finding someone that is going to be able to enforce that for you. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I do have... Can I have one more question? Of course you can. Mm. Okay. Good. All right. Good. Here we go. So anyone who's looking to go from employment to business, looking back on your journey- Mm. Yeah What, what do you want them to know that you didn't know that you've learned since and you think, "Oh, damn, if only I'd known that and that and that- Good questions I would've." Yeah. Oh, God. There are so many things that I wish I knew. Mm. Um, and especially when I was younger, I think that's a big one. Um, the biggest thing that I wish that I knew is that, um, time management- Mm is, is critical. Um, I'm a also a real big believer, and again, it comes down to being conservative, so, um, stay in a paid salaried role while you build your business- Okay but don't let it affect how you work in that other business. Yeah. So work at nights, work on the weekends, um, to build your business, but always remember, I, and, and I've always got a plan B, never just put your eggs in one basket. Mm. And never burn your bridges. Mm. Um, you really want to... So you know, when I left my previous role, um, I left on really good terms, um, because you never know. Yes. Not that I would go back to public accounting- Yeah, yeah but I always think the, the impression that you leave on people plays a bigger role in your life than you think. Mm. Yeah, totally. Wow. Um, so I would do a hybrid if I was starting up a business, and hence why this one here as well, I still have my salary and wage job- Yeah and then this is building on the side. Yeah. Um, only because I think safety is really important, especially if you have a young family- Yeah as well. Yeah. Um, you know, cost of living is expensive and never put your eggs in one basket- Yeah ever. Mm. Diversify. Mm. That's great advice. All right. That is fantastic. I wasn't expecting that either. Diversify. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Cool. All right. Wow. Yeah, it's good. Quick-fire question time. All right. Yeah. Quick fire. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh- All right, now to get to know the person behind the microphone just a little bit- Yes we also haven't done poses if we're gonna do poses. Oh, my gosh. So we got- we're gonna do poses. Shall I take my jacket off? Well- You're gonna have to I think I guess, yeah. All right. We're gonna see what's under there. I'll just remember I am in off season. Yes, and- Just so- Well, it's a vulnerable- I'm also in off season yeah, and, and it's just a vulnerable point for me- It's been going for a few... right? If you've got more muscles than I have, I'm feeling not great about things. It's really funny 'cause I'm like, "Can we get a zoom?" Yeah. O- okay. Um- We don't even need to zoom no. Yeah. All right. That's enough of that. I, uh- You good over here, Steve? Do you wanna do- No. I should've tanned. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, all right. All right, so quick-fire question time. Quick fire, yes. So now to get to know the person behind the microphone- Yes a little bit more, we ask you 10 quick-fire questions. Love this. We'll alternate them- Yes um, at you, and we get you to a- answer them in a sentence or less. So you ready to go? Oh, gosh. Yeah. Yeah. All right, stop talking now. Okay. Okay, all right. Quynh, you ready to go? Yep, ready. All righty. Okay. Office or work from home? Um, hybrid What was your first job? I was a checkout chick at Big W. Hey. Ah, your go-to productivity hack. Um, writing everything down on paper, old school crossing it off Again Again Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Android or iPhone? iPhone. What's your coffee order? Um, a medium long black, served warm. I was like, "It's gotta be a long black." Yeah. Yeah, of course. Even my kids know how to order it. Yeah. Yeah. It, it was never gonna have any syrup or anything in it, right? No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. No. So if you weren't doing what you do now, what career would you choose? Gosh. Again, like, I still wouldn't... I don't know. Yeah. I, I really, I don't know, to be honest. Um, maybe something, oh, like I'd love to, like work at Amazon or something like that. Okay. Yeah, I don't know doing what. Ooh. Yeah, just something- Something big I don't know. Do you know what? Something mindless where I can maybe just pack stuff. Oh. I don't know. Back to Big W it is. Yeah. Yeah. Full circle moment. I don't think I can work with customers every day, though. No, that's fair. No. Take my hat off to them. What's the best investment you've ever made? Um, myself. Oh. Early riser or night owl? I think we've... No. Oh my gosh. I'm an early riser and a night owl. Yeah. Yeah. Far out. Yeah. Uh, what's one piece of tech that you couldn't live without? My phone. Yeah, I was like, "Huh. Phone." My phone. Yeah. And what's your book or podcast recommendation? So I actually wrote this one down. So this one was a huge one for me. Mm-hmm. It's called The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins. Oh, Mel Robbins. Oh, yes. So good. Yeah. Especially from what you were talking about- Yep right? With being worried about what people think. Yeah. Correct. That's that green covered book, isn't it? It is. It is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. It is such a life-changing book. It, um, I've done, like, goal-setting books, but that one there, I've even got goosebumps, because that really changed my life. Yeah. That book. Wow. Wow. Really at that point in time, I needed that book. Yep. Yeah. Wow. That's a great one. Yeah. Mel Robbins is- Good. She's really amazing. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. All right. One final question. Yes. So if business truly is a game, Nat Roberts, what is your definition of winning? Um, my definition of winning, um, in business is making sure that everyone that works within my business is happy. Mm. Mm-hmm. That's really nice. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Fantastic. All right. So where can our listeners find you and your business online? So, um, head to, um, tarlaoffshore.com.au. Okay. Um, and there's contact forms there. Great. So submit that, and then you're likely to actually get myself. Um, contact you and reach out, and then start the process, and then, um, yeah. Amazing. Nice. It, we make it very easy. It's not complicated. We don't want to complicate things. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you, Nat. Yeah. This has been such a fun- Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. Thanks for the vulnerability as well. Like, we- Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That was- I think this, the thing is, behind every business is a person. Yeah. Um, and I think that's a, a real thing to also take away. Yeah. Um, you know, some people have a bad day, don't take it out on other people. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, we, we are all just people trying to- Be the best at what we can do Have a crack, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Well- And we need to go and let Nat eat now, right? So- I know. Yes, yes. No one likes to see me hangry. That's right. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all we've got time for. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game, and check out the playlist for the level of business that you're currently playing. Because every founder is somewhere on the game board, from zero all the way to $200 billion. Choose your level, and we'll see you next time