But here's the bad news. You forget even enjoying the nice car. I mean, and then you get $2 million. You're like, "Oh, $12 million would be the numbers when I really can slow down." It's, it's never enough. They get either trapped in the gold handcuffs. Everything in life is a game. It has a scoreboard. Like, are you... Am I happy? Am I not happy? I personally like to live at the edge because life is short. GPS works in reverse way. It starts from the end goal. I want to reverse engineer how your life is gonna go Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels from zero to over $50 billion so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level one, which sits in the zero to $1 million bracket, the founder startup and survival stage. At this level, you're proving the model works. You're validating demand, refining positioning, and fighting for consistent revenue. The challenges? Doing almost everything yourself, hiring your first team member, and stepping from practitioner into CEO. The goal? Turn expertise into traction and build momentum that's repeatable, not accidental. Welcome to The Business Game. I'm Kaleena Steno. I'm Steve Plummer. Be sure to like and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening. Today, we're joined by Boaz Gilad, a performance coach, entrepreneur, author, and podcast host. After more than 20 years building and leading a large New York real estate company, he shifted his focus to helping high-performing founders, executives, and leaders achieve great clarity, execution, and results. Boaz is the founder of Zenith Clubhouse, author of The Zenith Code, and host of the Unmasked podcast. His work is centered on helping top performers turn ambition into measurable progress through clear goals, disciplined execution, and practical 90-day performance systems. Let's dive in with Boaz Gilad. Boaz, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. We cannot wait to get into this conversation with you. Oh, thank you. I'm so happy we have technology so we can speak all the way from New York to Australian. I have no problem. Isn't it wonderful? When it works, right? Yes. When it works, yeah. When it all works, yes. Exactly. Um, so to start us off, Boaz, can you tell us about Zenith Clubhouse and a little bit about the philosophy behind it as well? Oh, sure. So, uh, I'm gonna g- I'm gonna step back a little bit more and tell you, and you can stop me at any moment. Again, like I'm, I'm based in New York. We're used to being stopped and told what to do, so no problem at all. But, um, yes, like you said before in the introduction, I led a decent sized company for 20 years. I mean, it was my company. I took it public, so I ran a public company for seven years out of that. So it was... You know, in New York, one of the great thing is nothing is big, right? Like, you can be the biggest guy, and then someone on the subway sits next to you, and he or she are bigger than you. So I, I like to say a, a nice sized company. And while I was, uh, doing real estate, I published my first book about real estate and entrepreneurship, and I- it led me to lead seminars to thousands of people around entrepreneurship. And, you know, I walked into a room, and after a while, you probably have the sense also if you're in that world, is I could smell who's gonna deliver and who's just a talker, you know? And I was fascinated. I was like, "How is it that I can point to someone and say she will deliver the results she's committed to, while he is just blowing, blowing hot air?" And that led me to Zenith Club because I said, "I wanna crack..." And it's not like I have the answers. I really don't. I'm just... I kind of mastered asking tough questions and big questions. So I went to a bunch of really successful people, and I said to them, "Tell me what, what, what ticks? What works? What makes you a top performer?" And I tried to reverse engineer what makes them top performers, and that what led to the Zenith Clubhouse. Again, the American accent, Zenith. You know, you call it Zenith, we call it Zenith. It's Zenith. It doesn't matter. We'll, we'll go Zenith for tonight. Yeah. As long as you buy the book on Amazon. As long as you buy the book on Amazon, I don't care how you call it. Yeah, yeah. Call it whatever you want. Exactly. Exactly. So, um, so that, that's what... The, the, the idea behind the Zenith Clubhouse is to create this culture and this group of people that are really committing to operate in their top of performance, whatever performance means to you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And so with that, then, what were some of the... I'm curious about what, what were some of those, uh, findings? What were some of the big... Those questions that you were asking, what were s- some standouts for you that'll- Yeah, so- build the philosophy? So I'll tell you, the biggest standouts were actually misconceptions. So it wasn't about what to ask. I was more of like I had a feeling or a notion or a philosophy or I would, I would say assumption that when I dive into, uh, what makes someone a top performer, either I knew and I was like, "Yes, I knew that," or I'm like, "Oh, that's really surprising." So I'll share with you a few of them. We can go as deep as you want, as much as you want into it. But one of the biggest one is, um, inspiration. One of the things I found leading workshops to thousand of people is people are many times either have, uh, an illusion around inspiration, I'll explain that in a second, or they're what I called inspirational junkies. Yeah. Mm. They go from one workshop to the other, and they said, "You know, if I only get that..." And what they do is they... Look, people sell programs all the time, right? So like, or they just... Then you get into the room, and it's very exciting, especially in the United States. I mean, we master and we're like, "Come on, hurrah," and like very like- Yeah. It's very not- Yes Australian or European. Yeah. Right? But, and then they're like, "Oh my gosh," and they pull the credit cards, and they pay for the program, and then they learn material there. And then they don't do anything about it, and because they're inspirational junkie. So one of the assumptions or the misconception is that you need to be inspired to deliver top performance. And I... Look, inspiration is great. If you have it, it's wonderful. But inspiration is like sugar. It's you get this big g- rush, and you kind of like, "Go for it. Let's go. Come on. Come on." It's, you know, New Year resolution. You're like, "I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm gonna work out. I'm gonna lose those, you know, 10 pounds." And then reality ha- happens, and then you don't show up to the gym after February 1st or March 1st. And by the way, there are businesses who are built on that. Gyms are designed to be full in January and empty in June. I mean, they always take more capacity than they actually can host because they know that in the beginning, 20% and then up to 80% of the people are not gonna show up after four or five months, right? So one misconception, to go back to your question, was that you don't need inspiration. It's fun to have. It's a cherry on top, but it's not what needed. And the other thing is, and again, each one of them can have a two-hour conversation, so I'm just kind of touching on- Yeah I'm, I'm sprinkling some stuff for you. Um, the other one is team. So another misconception is that if I'm tough enough, hardworking enough, I can get... I can make it. And it is true that you need that as a base level to start, but if you look at any successful person... And again, when I say successful, I want to make sure that you understand it's a very subjective measurement because I don't know what... Who am I to tell you what success is? I'm more interested in to, to hear what you think success is. But wherever success lives t- for you and for your audience or whomever is speaking, uh, and listening- There's a whole team behind them. And a lot of people think that if they keep on pounding and working hard without building the infrastructure, and, uh, and if you don't mind, I'll give you a, a small example. Um, you know, cycling, we just finished the Tour de France, right? If you follow, uh, the Tour de France, there's one rider, but behind that one rider, there's a peloton, which is a bunch of riders. And behind those p- that peloton, there are coaches, and massage therapists, and cooks, and chefs, and team, and mechanics, and everything in that for one person to win the yellow jersey. And that's one of the things that people don't get. If you don't, you are as strong... I mean, they understand intellectually, you are as powerful as the team around you. So those are just two. Yeah. Those are great. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you. All right, let's dive into, and I'll call it Zenith. Yes. Let's dive, let's dive into Zenith Clubhouse a little bit. Um, that's the brand that holds everything together for you. Um, you've got a book, you've got a podcast. Um, what's the vision for Zenith, though, in, say, three to five years? And, and how do you define success around that? Hmm. That's a, that's a really great question because... So I'll d- well, I'll differentiate the two. So one of it... So for me, the reason I called it Zenith Clubhouse is because I wanna create opportunities for people who want to excel, to excel. So again, speaking about team, the environment around you calls you to be a particular way. What do I mean by that? If you and I, and I'm giving really simple examples because I think it clarifies, make it very black and white. If you and I... If you're committed to losing 20 pounds, okay? And I come to your house, and I open the kitchen cabinets, and it's full of junk food, then I will point to the fact that the environment around you does not support what you're up to. It's that simple. It just makes it... Look, can you do it? Of course you can, but it's just gonna make it much more difficult, right? So the i- the concept of Clubhouse is to create as many environment as possible for you to excel. So I wanna take care of you everywhere, whether, uh, in workshops that I run, to connecting you with other people, because I rarely work one-on-one. I work in workshop because I want... because I'm, there's a limit of how much I can support you. It's about you creating the environment around you. So my vision is to have as many, um, overlapping circles of interaction with people who are up to something extraordinary. And what do I mean s- when I say extraordinary? I say it's out of the ordinary. So it might be in your business. It might be in your relationship. It might be in your parenting. It might be in your fitness and health. So to create as many opportunities, and obviously in today's world, and you know it, you need to be a book and a podcast, and workshops, and keynotes, and, and we do a lot of social stuff. Yeah. 'Cause most people, just to, to add more and more things, sorry. Most people love complaining. So if you, if you and I go to a bar now, and I know it's too early for you, but for me it's, it's time to go to a bar now. Well, we're Australian. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's 10 o'clock somewhere. Exactly. Any, any excuse to, to drink. Um, so and we'll listen to the conversa- Let's say we kind of, uh, uh, ear drop on people. When you ask someone how they're doing, they will share complaints, even if they're not, quote-unquote, complainers. Yeah. Mm. Like, "Oh, I, I, I, I was late to work because traffic was terrible, and then my boss this thing, and this coworker, she did not show up, so I had to take more..." Like, it's, it's, it's expected and accepted in our community and in our world to complain. I want to have a conversation about what you're up to. What are, uh, what are the things that are in the way for you to living the life that you just love? And that's the kind of Zenith Club. So that's my big vision, right? That's my five-year. I just wanna have as many opportunities as possible for that. Yeah. Yeah. You, you mentioned at the start, um, success is different for everyone. What, what does it mean for you? So it shifted, right? So I shared with you earlier, and you said in the introduction that I l- led a large company, and for me, I was quite successful financially, right? And looking back, I hated what I did. In the beginning, I loved it for many years, but it became so stressful and so much, and I got hooked on the prizes. You know, when you drive a nice Porsche, you forget. You know? Mm-hmm. But, but here's the bad news. You forget even enjoying the good, the nice car. I mean, like, just to, to show you how ridiculous I am, my office... Do, do, do you think in kilometers or in miles? Which one is it that you think of? Kilometers, yeah. Okay, fine. Kilometers, yeah. So my... Okay, so my office is about, was about seven kilometers from my home, right? And I drove a really, really nice sport car on the crappy roads of New York City to the office, right? Like, that's how ridiculous it is. It's like, uh, but it was important to me. It was important for me from an ego perspective to show that I made it. I mean, I'm a, you know, I'm a, I'm a, a foreigner. I came to this country with nothing, and I made it. You know, all that stuff, like the American dream, all that stuff. For me, success right now is be fully used. Mm-hmm. When, when I kind of take my less- last breath, whether it's happening tomorrow because a bus, you know, did something, or because it happened in 40, I'm 54, so in 40 years or something, you know? I wanna make sure I'm fully, fully used and exhausted by the impact I'm making. So for me, success right now is to speak and impact as many p- people as possible, having them living an amazing life. Yeah. So I, I'm just curious around that. Do you think, or in your observation, that founders and entrepreneurs lose sight of what success means to them? Yes, and, and look, as... Let's, let's, uh, kind of label entrepreneurs as top performers, people who want to elevate their performance all the time. One of the things, um, that I love to talk to about, uh, I like to talk about is- The, the blessing in top performer is that you always want more, right? You wanna elevate your performance. You, you run, I'm just saying, uh, uh, uh, half an hour, uh, five miles, uh, five kilometers, and then you wanna do it in less time. Like, the... it's always like, it doesn't matter if you're in sport or... you always want more. That's the blessing. That's also the curse. Yes. Yeah. Because one of the things we see, I see often, is that entrepreneurs don't stop and celebrate their accomplishments. Yes. Mm. So true. And to, so, so, you know, you, you said, "Oh my God, if I only had $2 million." Can you imagine in your 20s, $2 million? And then you get $2 million, you're like, "$2 million? I mean, I have my k- kids in private school and in g- vacation and like this and that. Okay, five mil. Five million would be the numbers when I really can slow down, be with my family." And it's, it's never enough. You keep on moving to 10 and 20 and $30 million, right? So to end, to what, to what you're saying is one of the things that entrepreneurs forget is why did they start doing it. They get either trapped in the gold handcuffs, 'cause we always elevate the, uh... Look, I live in New York. Doesn't matter how rich you are, there's someone always richer than you. Yes. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, but, but I think it's everywhere. And again, I'm, I'm talking about business 'cause most of my b- my work is around business coaching, but it doesn't have to be around co- uh, only business. Could be about anything in life. It's never enough. So I think many, many... or I'll say it the other way around. I'll say rarely I meet entrepreneurs who are actually satisfy and are in connection a- and in contact with what made them do what they do. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You know? And, and is, is that where the be savage, not average, um, m- mantra that you have comes from? Yes. Savage is someone who is stepping out of their comfort zone. Like, like sav- savagery is like being wild, being out there, being... again, that's kind of how I see it. And, and that was critical for me because we... again, I think you're pointing in both your questions to the complexity of a life of an entrepreneur, right? So one of them, like you're hungry and therefore you're never s- you're never satisfied, you will push the envelope. That's amazing that we have people like Elon Musk and, like, all those are good because it's never enough, right? Which is beautiful. That's... again, put him aside because he's a character, but I'm just saying, like, it's, it, all those amazing stories about people who just keep on creating stuff, right? But also it's the curse. The same with what you're saying. Savage is someone who keep on pushing the envelope, and whatever is comfortable for you, you push outside of the comfort zone, and it becomes uncomfortable. But then you conquer it, and then it becomes comfortable. So savage, someone who keep on going out to the wild trying to get something. Wow. Yet that's also contradictory, isn't it? Because like you said, it's the, the, the secret sauce that drives, but it's also the curse. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And, and, and my commitment is for you to have peace with it See, I have no problem if you're never gonna be satisfied I want you to develop a sense of humor around it 'Cause sometimes you have to surrender to the personality you are. You may be someone who no matter what you're gonna have, you're gonna m- want more. So instead of either suppressing it... I have, uh, two Australian friends, and they shared with me, I forgot, you'll know the word, but there's an expression in Australia about, like, the chopping the heads of, like, the, the, like, puppies, like jumping puppies. Oh, tall, the tall puppies. Oh, yeah, tall puppies and kittens. Tall puppies. Yeah, yeah. No, exactly, exactly. The tall puppy syndrome. Yeah. So in your culture, again, I'm not saying you two, but I'm just saying, like in a, a, a... There's a culture of suppressing sometimes someone who wants to stick out of the crowd, do something. In America or New York especially, it's the opposite. If you're not extraordinary, you're gone. Because look, New York, there's nothing easy about New York. New York is, is... it's not comfortable. Move to Phoenix or to, you know, to other places, you know, to... That's easier life. It's extraordinary. It's challenging. So depends on the culture you live in, you'll have the environment around you. I just want you to have peace with it, you know? I- so if you are someone who pushes the envelope all the time, surrender to who you are. Let's create a r- enough environment around you to celebrate who you are, and then have a sense of humor around it. If you're someone who just want a job and want to 9:00 to 5:00 and go and hang out with your friend after work, play golf or have a beer, no problem at all. I want you to have peace with that. The challenge is that most people I meet are never happy. They either are people who are not doing enough but want extraordinary life, or people who are extraordinary life and are never satisfied because it's never enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's such a... Yeah, I think surrendering to who you are is such a big- Yeah um, takeaway. And- It's almost life's challenge, isn't it- Yeah in many ways. So I wanna go backwards just, um, a few steps. Y- when you were working in real estate, you sort of said that suddenly it just became not enough and you weren't happy, and so you shifted into this performance coaching. Can you talk us through that shift point? Because, you know, as you mentioned, you'd hit that success. You've felt it, and then it suddenly wasn't enough for you, but you also weren't enjoying all the things that you had earned. So what was it that the real estate world was not giving you suddenly? Yeah, so I- And what did you think was gonna c- come from this performance coaching that is giving it to you now? So first of all, I think you're giving me too much credit. I think the process was long, longer and more painful than that. So I'll, I'll, I'll walk you through it. So, so look, I'm, I, I manage a large... I manage about a billion dollars of real estate. That's a, that's a nice chunk, right? That's impressive, yeah. Yeah. Um, and a lot of employees, a lot of stress, in a public company, so you have all those powers and people are shorting you. People... All those things that are in part of running a public company. And, um, it was, it was constantly a stressful environment, and I actually thrill... I'm, I'm, I'm actually, I excel in a, in stressful environment. I love that kind of, like, athlete's sp- space, right? And in the end of the ti-- in the end of the day, I-- there was two things that happened. Uh, first of all, I stopped enjoying the people around me. So in real estate, again, I'm speaking about New York real estate, I don't wanna generalize, but there's a, uh, the, the integrity level is quite low. The bar is low. You know, I say I'm gonna replace your kitchen, I'm gonna tell you it gonna cost $10,000. It's gonna take... $15,000 it's gonna cost. It's gonna take l- double the time. Probably everywhere in the world. I mean, I don't think that Australia's that different. Um, but, um, but it, it, it started to get to me. It started to really, uh, bother me that my word and other people's word means not much. It means that. You know, so, so then I actually... It's not like I was flourishing and doing crazy well. It's actually life had a, a, a fatal accident, uh, with me. What I mean by that, I had a hostile takeover. So I ran a company, and I went through a difficult cash flow and had three funds, two, but two, three, two large ones, that bought everything in my company and pushed me out. So, uh, so I lost everything I had. So even though I was a CEO and a founder of a s- of a public company, the challenge with public company is someone can come and take over, and I had a h- hostile takeover. And the good thing about it, I mean, the many good things about it, I'm looking back now, I'm delighted it happened, but it was more of an acci- like a crash, like an accident. Not like I drove around, suddenly I saw, you know, the, the sky parted, and I saw the light, and I was like... No, no, no. It was like fr- front and center crash. And, um, but the good thing about it, I had a really good name, and I think I still do. And my phone did not stop ringing the morning after it came in the, in the news that my take, my-- there was a-- basically I quit the, the, because it was public notice, and so the newspapers, uh, the media covered it. And, um, my phone rang, and people said, "I know. I'm so sorry of what you're going through. We, we know who you are. We'll back you up. Let's go back to real estate." But it gave me an opportunity to pause and think and say, "What do I actually like to do?" And while I was Uh, working and running my company, I taught at NYU grad school, which I'm still doing. I wrote my first book about real estate. So I said, "What a great opportunity for me to pause and maybe take a few weeks or month before I go back to real estate," because it's very stressful and, you know, all the costs and legal things you have to deal with. And, and, um, you know, I took my, my bicycle and I cycled, I cycled from New York to the Florida Keys, which is about 2,200 kilometers. Wow. It's, it's a, it's, it's a nice ride. That's a lot of thinking time. Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's a lot of, a lot of me alone, podcasts and music time, exactly. By myself I did it, without anyone. Oh, wow. By myself. And I remember I stopped halfway... I mean, I stopped before every night obviously, but there was, but, but, but there was a moment in, I think it was like South Carolina, somewhere which is the nowhere. Like, like think about like the, the, the areas in Australia where there's no one there, like one of those areas, right? And I looked around, I was in a gas station, I was getting some cold drinks, it was a hot day. Um, and I looked around and there's like people with their pickup trucks filling gas and getting drinks and getting something from the... And I said, "Oh my gosh, no one gives a hoot about me." And it was such a liberating, um, moment because I realized how not important I am. And I'm saying it as good news. Like, really, I'm like a s- uh, you know, because your ego gets so boosted when you are on a public stage and you, uh, you know, I'm on the cover of New York Times business section, and New York T- Wall Street Journal used to call me and ask for, you know, my, what do I think about things, as if I'm like Who cares, right? First of all. So I, I was like, "Wow, I'm really not, not important," and that got me to answer again. It's a long story. I apologize. But, um, but there's a lesson there, I think, because I, I realized that I'm not important and gave me a lot of freedom to just be... And then I said, and that also, I'm gonna pursue what makes me happy. So I took my time. I took a few months, and I kind of got involved with a startup that didn't go anywhere, and I was like, okay, so startups are not my world. Technology is not my world. But I realized I, I, I was very clear I don't wanna go back to real estate. So even though I teach real estate still at the grad school of NYU, and I still am sitting on a few, uh, consulting bo- boards, it's not my, I'm not full-on a developer, right? And I said, "What do I wanna do?" And that what- that kind of like, that's the shift. I'm, I'm interested in making an impact. Wow. And with that realization of, you know, not everyone knows who I am, is that where you think you came up You, in a past interview, you said that you, uh, you said, "I want to not just be relevant, but at the edge because that's what's made Brooklyn what it is." So do you think that that sort of allowed you to g- feel the freedom to be on the edge because it, it doesn't matter? Yeah. No, that's a- Not that it doesn't matter, but- Great que- I, I never thought about it this way. I, I, I, I would say it, again, so first of all, I agree with you, right? And I would look at it differently. I think it's in my personality. You know how we said earlier that you have to surrender To who you are in, to some degree. I'm always I remember I brought a consultant to my office, to my, uh, team, and she turned to the team when I ran the company and said, "Do you know what your challenge is with working with Boz?" And they're like, "No." And like she said, "Boz like to play big games- by the way, the business game. He's always gonna be playing a big game. He, he, he, it's never gonna be easy. It's gonna be maybe fascinating, and you get real big bonuses, and you're gonna make a lot of money, but it's never easy, right?" So when I say the edges, I always, I always did that. Like, this, the key to the success of my company, if we wanna talk about real estate for a second, is I started building in Brooklyn, which is kind of an up-and-coming area, very hipster-y and cool, way before it was cool. Like, way, way, way before it was cool. And, and that was my cutting edge. That's what, what brought me to I, so I always, look, I grew up in Israel. I left and I came to New United States with nothing, with a suitcase and a few bucks, right? And I, I don't know if you read it in my bio, but I'm, I'm happy to share it. I came to New York to study acting. Hmm. So I was an actor till I was 29, right? And you know, my best friend was Australian, and he just came off the, you know, the, uh, got off the plane, and I got off the plane and became friends. And, um, and I was waiting tables like any succ- quote, unquote, "successful actor in New York." So I always wanted to So I was broke, and so I always wanted to push the envelope. So that's one of the thing that makes me very excited. I get really bored with, uh, the ordinary. And again, it's important that your listeners don't hear it as a criticism. All I want you to be happy. I want you to be happy, right? So but I personally like to live at the edge because life is short. It really s- life is so short. Like, literally, I can finish this call, go downstairs to dinner with my wife, and someone gonna make the wrong I like I'll tell you, last Friday I was cycling and a guy made a turn without using his blinkers and hit me. So I, I flew off my bike last Friday. And I'm, I'm completely okay and no problem and, but I'm saying l- I, I'm so present to how fragile and, and extraordinary life is. I just, you know, I wanna be at the edge all the time till I drop dead. Yeah. Wow. Mm. Well, you've come to peace with who you are, which is- Yeah allowing you to do that freely. That's great. The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website, and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors, and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your 14-day free trial. Yeah, before we dive into what Zenith does and how you're building that at the moment, I've, I've just got one more question around this transition phase, because a lot of founders, entrepreneurs go through that at various times. So looking back on that journey and that transition phase, are there challenges that you face that many people don't talk about? Yes. Uh, I think what people are, um, talk about it a lot with themselves, which is not talking about it, it's an internal dialogue or monologue they keep on going, is the fear of letting go The fear of letting go of a bad relationship, the fear of letting go of your business. Maybe you grew up in a family business and you look, "Oh, my grandfather started it with one truck, and then my father took it next level and took it like... But I'm really not happy." And they're not willing to have this painful conversation with their business partners, their investors, their families maybe, when it's family businesses, of letting go of something, of kind of like releasing that grip. Because you no longer own the business or the relationship. The relationship owns you. The business owns you. So I think one of the things that I see all the time is how much suffering there is, literally physical suffering, and psychological suffering obviously, of people who are just not willing to take the risk of letting go. They take the risk of investing in something. They take the risk of doing... But when it comes to letting go because they don't know what the next step is, and the most, um, scary space for human being is the unknown. When you jump, the scary part is not when you're in the air, it's before you leap into that, you know, m- you know, jump. So people, when you don't see the side of where you're going to land, that what is the source of the fear, and people are not willing to speak about it. One of the thing I'm really committed to having a freedom and power around in, in the Zenith Clubhouse is to have conversation about that. Because you spending, you... I, I, I'll talk to you and you're in the business and you're not really happy or it's really struggling and, you know, you don't really tell your friends over barbecue on the weekend how's your, "Oh, I'm doing well. You know, a little bit of the economy's..." You know, you don't really honestly saying what you're dealing with, right? And I want to give you the freedom to say so we can deal with it, 'cause the moment it's out in the open, it does- I'm not saying it should be public. But in an environment that is safe to talk about it, then we can deal with it, and you can have a life that you love. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and so I guess- It's so important yeah, the, the next step then obviously is entrepreneurs, founders need a place to go to be able to do that. Yes, absolutely. And you know, just one, I love the name of your podcast, the, The Business Game, and because I don't know if you, uh, got a chance to kind of dive into my book, but I look at life as a game. What, so when you define, you know, and you, you guys can, you know, jump in. Absolutely, because you, like, you chose the, the name for a reason. Look, what, what defines a game? The, the g- game has three components when you kind of look at, you know, the, the classic definition. It has time limitation, has rules and regulations, and has a scoreboard, right? So everything in life is a game. L- life is a game. L- l- our life's gonna end, come to an end. But also if you look at, like, a business or rela- forget about business, relationship. You know, there's a game called being married. It has The game, it has time limitation on it, whether it's 70 years- That's an interesting laugh. Like, so interesting laugh, right? We're both kind of going, "Oh, yeah, okay. Yeah." See, I don't know if you're married yet or- We talk about, we talk about that game often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get a bit close to home here, but anyway, yeah. E- exactly. So, so let's talk about it. So look, it has, it has time limitation. Again, could be 60 years, but it has time limitation. It has a scoreboard. Like, are you, am I happy? Am I not happy? Like, you know. And, and sometimes, uh, I'll, uh, say something about it in a second, but And, and it has rules and regulations. But people forget. They get married and they forgot they chose to play the game called being married. Now, being single is also a game, you know? And being single is you can, you know, there's scoreboard and how many people you can meet until you, whatever. You know, all that stuff, right? But people forget that, so people are married complaining about not being single, and people are single complaining about being married instead of really surrendering to what's the board. Now, one other thing I find is that people don't look at the scoreboard. They look at how they feel about things. Especially in today's culture, we look a lot at our feelings, and I'm not dismissing it. My sister is a clinical psychologist. I always argue with her about it, 'cause she's, you know. But I'm like, "Yes, feelings are important, but if you and I play rugby and I looked at the scoreboard and your team has four points than me, you're winning and I'm losing. Who cares if I say, 'Yeah, but I feel really good about how I play. I re- I really gave everything I have on, on the field," or whatever, on the court, whatever it's called in, in rugby. You know, um, so who cares? There's a scoreboard. Are you winning? Are you losing? Now, not to beat yourself down about it, but let's look at what are the things you're not doing to now win. So game for me is a critical part of the whole thing. Yeah. Hmm. I really like that analogy. Hmm. So shifting gears, um, and looking at, um, Zenith a little bit more, so what challenges are you facing while turning ideas, programs, you know, coaching, books, into scalable businesses that, that consistently reach the right people, um, and deliver the measurable results? How do you keep the momentum going? Uh, well, there's two parts to your question. And first part, maybe we should turn off the compu- the, the mics and have like a, a therapy session. I, I can tell you what's the most frustrating for me. Bring your sister in. Yeah, fine. I, I love when people are like, "No, just ask in the studio," and there's like 10 million people listening to this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's open wide. It's safe. But I'm, I'm, I'm an open book. You know? It's not a problem. I'll tell you what's the most frustrating for me from a business perspective, then we'll talk about the other part of it inside Zenith. So the most challenging thing for me is that, uh, I always kind of, uh, I would say struggle or, or, or, um, or looking for the right words when I talk about being a coach because coach is such a broad word, and every other person who go through a midlife crisis, you know, or sold their business or divorce become like a life coach or a relationship coach. And I'm like, so there's so much BS in this business. And again, I'm not saying anything bad. Some of them are great and brilliant, but, but one of the, the biggest challenge I have is sales and marketing in my business. Because why would you come to me versus go somewhere else? Because there's so many. Go to LinkedIn and type in coach, and there's 10, if not, maybe 100,000 of people who call themself coaches. So on, on a, from a business perspective, my biggest challenge is how do I differentiate myself from others? Yes. And how do I convince you to buy my product versus someone else? I also have, basically I get a hive. I get so annoyed 'cause there's some people who are so mediocre, but they're amazing salespeople. So they're like, "You know, come and register and we'll give you this for free," and, and I'm like when you... And when you look at their material, it's really manipulative and they just get people because people are, like we said earlier, are, um, uh, inspiration junkies. So they sell them more and more program and all that stuff. So one of the frustrating thing for me is that it's highly manipulative, um, business, and also the bar is very low to become... You just call yourself a coach and that's the end of the story, right? So I think that that's my biggest thing. How do I sell, and how do I make sure that the quality is there? Now, when we dive into, if I, maybe I misunderstood your question, but when we dive into, uh, the business, my biggest, I, I don't know if it's challenge, but my biggest o- obstacle I would say is that, first of all, I'm a very straight shooter. So it's not if my delivery... Zenith is not for everyone. I sometimes say to people, it's like a CrossFitting. You know CrossFit? Yep. Yeah. You know, CrossFit, look, I, I, I've, I've t- I've done two classes of CrossFit and I was like, "I'm never coming in here again." I almost threw up. It was awful. It was so intense. And I'm like, you know, I'm tough, you know, I go- That's living on the edge still CrossFit. Yeah. Uh-huh. That's the, I'm not exactly, I'm not a CrossFit kind of a person. It was way too intense for me. But people who get hooked on CrossFit, they become like, it's like a cult, right? Like, they're like, "Oh," but you know. So, so my style is very, um, um, results-oriented. And, uh, I... Look, when people do the three months program, which is our big, like, kind of flag program, the long program, not just the workshops, and then I probably lose 10, 15% of the clients in the middle because it's too intense for them. Now, people who are finishing the program, they get addicted to it. They do another one and another one because they're like, "Holy smokes, my life is amazing." Like, they come, keep on back and back, 'cause they take different areas. They take relationship, then they take business, they take fitness. And, um, but one of the challenges is, and I will fire someone. I'll say, "Look, you, you're amazing. Here's the money back. Please take it back. I, I don't want your money. Take the money back 'cause you are not... There's a gap between what you say you're committed to and what you're willing to do." And that's a big one in many areas, but it comes to the surface around the Zenith clubhouse and the Zenith Code, uh, programs. Because if you say, again, stupid example, but I think it's gonna make it very clear for the listeners. If you say you're committed to having a beautiful six-pack, you know, in, in, uh, on the, on the beach, and then you're stuffing your face with, you know, two slices of carrot cake, there's a gap between your actions and what you're committed to. So I want you to be happy. Uh, either have the carrot cake and enjoy it, really. Like, I'm not telling you, you should have a six-pack, or have the six-pack. But many people say, "No, no, I want the six-pack," and they register for the programs, and they're not doing the work. And I'm like, "Look, I wanna work with top performers. So you, you're not... Maybe in the future you will be. Here's the money back." I always say to people, "I'm giving you your full money back guaranteed." Not guarantee the results, but guarantee that if you're not a fit for you, I don't want you as a client. And that's, that's a challenge in the business, I would say. Mm. Yeah, I can imagine. Mm. Why... I, I'm curious, successful people, why is that, that clarity of focus, why is that harder for, you know, successful people, for founders, for entrepreneurs, than maybe some others, and, and the, the challenges around coaching around that? Here, here's the funny thing we do You're a great business person, right? And, uh, you come to me because someone sent you or something like that to work on your relationship. And when we actually take it apart, we find out that you double down on what you're already very good at. So one of the biggest, uh, misconception and failures of successful people is that they don't implement the muscles they develop in one area into other areas. So my first client, you know, my first client was a guy who was just such an inspiration as a business person. His team loved him. He was very successful, wealthy, just one of those poster child of success, right? But he was 300 pounds. And when he looked at himself, he said, "I'm a loser." Not... I didn't say it about him. Who am I to judge you, right? But-- And I, and I was so fascinated saying, "How is it- Let's call him John for the conversation. Um, how is John so on top of things, in a high level of integrity, says what he's going to do, and does it when it comes to the business, to the balance sheet, to the P&L, profit and loss, all things. But when it comes to his eating and habits of around working out and taking care of himself, he's a disaster. And that's why people are, it, it... You know, you come to me, I'm your, you know, gym coach, you know, and I look at you and say, "Your upper body's not very strong." And you say, "Okay, no problem. Let me just go keep on working on my legs." I'm like, "It doesn't, it doesn't make any sense." But in life, people do that. Yeah. Yeah. They double down on something they're already comfortable with, and that's the reason why top performers are very good in one area and, and they're not good in other area. And when I started the Zenith Climb House, and before it was even the Zenith Climb House, I, I belonged to an organization called YPO. It's Young President Organization. It's CEO around the world. It's, uh, you know, people who did very well as CEOs. And I just sent an email and said, "I wanna create kind of like a brainstorming sessions." And I collected groups of 10, 12 people and asked them questions. And w- I made sure that each one of them is good at something else. And what we found is that people are good at one thing, and then the other person good at something else, and third, but it's all the same. It's the same muscle. You just don't know how to implement it to another area of your life. Mm. Yeah. Wow. That's pretty powerful, isn't it? Yeah. Mm. So, so what you're saying is if you- So- if you've got muscle in one area, you can use that muscle in other areas of your life, you just don't know how to yet. Is that- You don't know how to access it, exactly. Not, not only that, the results are becoming... You know, it's so easy to work with s- someone... And by the way, I wanna make sure that, there's, there's, um, um, a very important thing I wanna say here. 95% of people I meet, w- that I meet, are top performers in one area of their life. So when I say top performer, I don't want someone who listened to this conversation saying, "Oh, well, I'm not. I'm just working in a job," or... Like, no, no, I'm not talking about only people who have private jets and drive around the world, fly around the world, right? You might be a top performer in relationship Like you might be inspiration. You won't be a top performer as a friend. Like I- when I get a flat at 2:00 AM and I'm like, "Who do I call?" I call you, you know, because you are like, you know how to be an amazing friend. It's like, "Yeah, no problem. Let me throw pants on and I'll be there in 20 minutes. I'll drive and pick you up and make sure you get a tow truck and all." Like, you- there's one area of your life when you're a top performer. I'm want to walk you through the process of using the muscles you already have in one area to another. And here's the thing is there's a tipping point. Th- this is kind of the, the, the delicious moment of the programs on the work, where y- the moment you translate, uh, the muscles of area you're top performer at to other areas, then it's a vocabulary. Then you just know how to use it. It's kind of like if you learn five, six languages, it's easy to pick up the seventh language. It's, you know, it's hard when you learn the second language because you only speak English. But if you speak five, boom, you meet someone, "Oh yeah, I met someone..." Like my dad speaks four languages. He's like, "Yeah, I was in Portugal for a few months" and he speaks flu- Portuguese. I was like, "How the hell do you do that?" 'Cause his brain works this way because he speaks five other languages. No difference. No difference. Yeah. Wow. It's the application muscle and just being able to- Yeah you know, take an action. Yes. And removing the... Look, like my, I... The reason I call my podcast Unmasked, 'cause I wanna remove the myth We have so many myths about what it takes to be successful. Whatever, again, whatever success means to you. Uh, I don't know you. Who am I to tell you what success looks like? Whatever you s- think success is and you want it, let's just remove the myth. It's more about, uh, again, just, uh, the Zenith clubhouse is more about removing obstacles and myths than actually adding more in. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Mm. So your 90-day performance system is central to what you do at Zenith. Can you walk us through how it works in practice? So what happens in the first week with a new client, and what does progress look like by the end of the 90-day cycle? So, uh, most of them are done as workshops. So it's a group. It could be as, like a international. I have right now a group with someone with... From Africa, from Japan, from California, so it's, uh, it's, uh, on Zoom. Um, but what we do is, first of all, we get really clear about the first, I would say, two weeks is, um, is getting really clear about what you want. Like, really clear. And have a confr- confrontational, uh, like, I would say confronting conversation. A- a- and I don't confront you, you confront yourself. And do you really say you wanna do that? And are you willing to do the work to do that? Because look, everybody wants to be like a Michael Jordan or, you know. Yeah, but do you have the discipline? Are you willing to do the work, you know? And if not, no problem. Quit. I want you to be quit and happy versus, like, miserable and not successful, right? So the first thing is to... And then what we do is we do, you know, if you look at, uh, I'll give you just one, like, I'll give you a few milestones on the way if you don't mind. Uh, so the, you know, you know how GPS works from a technology perspective? So GPS, when you click in an address The GPS doesn't drive the car like the way you and I drive. You and I drive, and we see the light. Okay, I'm gonna make a left here, and then you drive two streets, and you say, "Oh, there's no traffic there. I'm gonna make a l- a right there." That, that's how we drive, right? GPS works in reverse way. It starts from the end goal, right? And it re- like, reverse engineer the route. And like, oh, there was an accident, so therefore I'm gonna take you to... ask you to make a left, and then make a right, all that stuff, right? So I want to reverse engineer how your life is gonna go. And then, so instead of saying, "What do you want now?" I'm saying, "Okay, I got the big picture commitment. Now you tell me how will life looks like in 90 days if you got everything you wanted." And I don't... I'm not as interested in... We have to train people to think this way because m- the first thing people say is like, "Oh, well, I'll feel very light because I lost 20 pounds and I'll be working out." I'm like, "No, no, I don't care how you feel because if you wake up and it's winter and it's raining outside, you're not gonna be inspired to work out," right? Describe to me if literally there's a sentence I always use in the workshop is that, "If I was doing a reality show about your life, describe to me what will I see on the screen, not how you feel about it." "Oh, well, I'll be able to wear my 31 number, you know, jeans that I haven't wore in 10 years, and I'll be p- going for a run with my son who just finishing, you know, high school and, you know, I would love to work out with him," or whatever that thing is. And I say, "Okay, now let's reverse engineer what will it take for you to be there in 90 days". And then we... And the next step is to let's build the infrastructure for you to be successful. So we put you with a buddy in your gr- in the group, so you guys hold each other accountable because here's the good news: You're gonna mess up Because you're gonna operate outside of your comfort zone. No one is expecting to be perfect. Perfect is ridiculous. If you wanna be perfect, go play basketball with a bunch of five-year-olds. You're always gonna win. You're gonna be perfect. But it's so boring after a while, right? Like, really, if you wanna feel great about yourself, go play with five-year-olds. You know, you're gonna always win. Yeah. It's like herding cats. Yeah. Exactly. So I'm, I'm, I'm interesting in what teams you wanna... You- we need to build around you, right? And also, like, what is the compassion and the structure you need around you when you fail? Because you will be failing. You'll say, "I'm real..." And I'm keep on giving this example because I j- I think it's just very simple. You are committed to l- looking a different way or be in top shape, right? But you go to brunch, and someone order a Bloody Mary, and like, "Okay, I'm gonna have the Bloody Mary." And after the Bloody Mary, you really want those pancakes because your brain is not working. And then, and... But he- that's not a problem. That's how human operate. The problem is, is on the way driving home, you're gonna be like, "I'm such a loser. I said I'm gonna lose this, and I didn't do it, and here I had the pancakes after I had the eggs Benedict." And you down... And then you're like, "What's the point?" And then you stuff your face with more because, like, and then you're down. My job is to bring you back on track when you mess up. So we spend all this time with a buddy system, with exercises, with dis- weekly discussions over the 90 days to keep on removing things in the way and create a infrastructure for you to be looking back at 90 days and say, "Whoa, I got what I wanted." Yeah. Wow. Mm. With the buddy system, I'm interested, are you, um, pairing people up who have similar goals, or you, or are they different? Oh, they have to be... Well, I pair them up by- They have to be different, I imagine They have to be different because you're, again, you're very good in upper body, I'm very good in lower body. Why would I choose another person with a good upper body? Yeah. But the second thing is the buddy is not important. What's important is the system, the system about you having the freedom, the, um, the, the space to be honest, that you can just say, "Look, you can call me, and I c- don't have to say much." You say, "Oh, I messed up. I went to brunch, and after second Bloody Mary, I had the pancakes, oh, on top of it, on top of the omelet I had earlier." And for me just to get the communication, say, "What do we need to do to catch, catch up to it? Can you take on additional run this evening?" Or, "What do you need to say to about what's the things that... How can we support you to go back on track?" So the buddy's not about coaching you. The buddy's about a system. If you need coaching, I'm here. You know, my, the people who run the program are there, right? But it's about the ability to go back on track, back on track, back on track, because that's the key. Not off the rail, yeah Boaz, can we talk about Zenith and, and the business for a moment here? What does your own 90-day plan look like? So I take on games every time I start program myself, and, uh, so because I wanna be in the, in the trenches with you, right, as I'm doing it. And, um, so I will take on different things. So I'm involved... Like, for example, I'm back to teaching at NYU grad school. That was a 90-day games. Uh, I want to teach at the grad school, not in the undergrad. Uh, I'm, uh... It, it can be as little as, like, family vacation when I collect my family who's all over the world for one place for vacation. So I just wanna have a blast. I enjoy... I'm, I literally, many times I'm in tears around other people's games after 90 days because people are getting the most... They get their... Look, they get their marriage back. You know? They forgot they chose to play a game called being married. So it became all about, like, just sticking with it, and how can I suffer as little as possible? And I hope my wife is gonna bother me less so I can hang out with my friends and, you know, play golf. But that's not the game you wanna play. Unless that's the game you wanna play, then, like, go and get a divorce. I wanna empower you in your divorce. Seriously. Yeah. Your game is how do I... I had someone, amazing person, who her game was to win a divorce, not to win in court, but have a divorce that empowers her and her husband And empower the kids. That's one of the most amazing games I ever played with a client, because it wasn't about... She was clear when she came in that she's no longer interested in living with that person. They were together for probably 20-something years, you know? So again, it's not about me telling you what's your, what's the right game to play, it's about what's the tools one needs to have to win the game they want to play. Yeah. Yeah. So just on that, it sounds like mindset is a really important part of what you do. Have you got any, I, I don't know, almost some tips or some cheat codes about, you know, what, what sort of mindset things should we be doing to improve that part of our, our lives, our business? Yeah. I, I'll say something like a tip, but it's so... It's a tip, and there's not much you can do with it, because it's just a tip, right? I think you need to practice being not important. Like that moment in South Carolina for me on that trip. I think that you need to keep on looking for little moments every day to understand how insignificant you are, how a speck of dust you are on this, uh, world, how the universe is so much bigger than all of us. And start to make fun of... Every time you go like, "I can't believe they said that," or, "Oh, I just made a lot of, I made a lot of important things out of nothing," you know? Now, I'm not saying there's nothing that are worth fighting for. Of course there is. But the more you practice having a sense of humor around you, the more you're gonna develop the, the flexibility and elasticity to deal with situations. And that's amazing minds- you know, m- uh, state of mind to win. Like, oh, I can, you know, I can... The more flexible you are, the less injuries you get. It's, that's how simple. Injuries in life, not just, you know, in sport. Like, you know, in business. Yeah, practice being insignificant. Yeah, that's- That's interesting yeah, I think a night trap one, isn't it? Yeah. Yep. There's a great, uh, there's a great video I use. Um, y- anyone can find it on YouTube. It's, uh, it's this, uh, camera basically pulling from a face of a young person lying down on a grass. And keep on dis- like, keep on pulling away the, the, the camera from her to the kind of like the field she's on, and then to the, th- village or to the city and to the... And it keep on pulling away, you know? And you realize, wow, the universe is so much bigger than, like, my little life. You know? It's like- Yeah. Yes. Yeah it's practicing not being important. Your life's gonna become so important, you know? Yes. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's really counterintuitive, isn't it? It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And I'm sorry I, I made this conversation much more philosoph- uh, philosophical. No. But I think it's a great tip. I think that's a key part of... Yeah. Yeah. Um- It's, it's sense of humor. It's so not important. Like, you know, I, I fell into it, of course, because we are human. But you get into, um, road rage. I mean, I never step out and punch someone, but I'm saying you get in those moments, someone cuts you off, like, ah. And then you drive away, you're like... I- if you can bring a sense of humor in that moment, you're like, oh my gosh, like, what? I almost stepped outside and killed someone. Like, not really, but I'm saying, like, wanted, wanted to kill someone. For what? Because they cut me off? Because they're jerks or whatever? Like, whatever, 'cause they didn't see me? Like, like, insignificance. Totally. I am interested, so you're also hosting, uh, The Unmasked Podcast alongside your coaching and your book. So how does that channel serve your broader mission, and what are you trying to reach through it that you cannot reach through the one-on-one coaching alone? So you, you, you know, uh, that in today's world, you must be in all the platforms. And so not just social media platform, but just, like, sales have to be done in all levels, right? So when I... Look, uh, I, o- I started lead workshops, and then someone says to me, "How do I follow up?" And I was like, "I don't know." And they're look, I'm... So I sat down and wrote the book. I'm not a writer. I mean, English is second language for me. It is my second book, right? But I'm not naturally a writer. Actually, I write a weekly Substack article that is, and I'm, you know, a little pitch here. I love, uh, like, you know, people are following it. But I took on writing Substack on a weekly basis because I'm not a writer. I'm like, "I'm gonna, by the way, 90-minute, 90, uh, day game." I'm like, "I'm... How do I become a top performer around writing where I'm dyslexic, and English is second language for me?" So two things that are give me all the reasoning and excuses not to be a writer, right? No. I'm gonna double down on that, right? So I started write on Substack to myself and to my clients, and one thing led to the other, now people follow me. But to answer your question, a podcast was the same thing. I was like, I hate social media because I'm 54. It's not natural for me. Like, I, no, like, for me, it's weird, you know? To like, you know, be like, "Hey, look at what I ate this morning." Or, "Look a picture of my cappuccino." Like, and my kids, they do it, you know? Because for them to take a picture of their sandwich is, like, a big deal because everybody like it. I was like, it's a sandwich. Like, let me just enjoy it. So I said to myself, how do I, uh, serve what is needed? And what is needed is to be on social media, right? And again, if you love it, you're one of the lucky one, but I'm not. Without feeling like I'm selling myself short or I'm being cheap here, right? So I said, "How do I do that?" Oh, I know how to do it. I love podcasts. I love listening to, you know, I dunno if you know, like, Pro- Prof G, Scott Galloway, or, or, uh, Sam Harris, which I... Uh, he's kind of like my, my go-to for everything. He's amazing, right? So how do I do that? How do I bring the... How do I bring across my intelligence and my intellectual curiosity without being on camera and go like, "Hey, guys, here's the tip of the day." Because it's not who I am. I'm not judging anyone who's trying it. If that's something that for you is easy, I'm jealous. I'm... Good for you, right? So I said, "I'm gonna do it through podcasts." You know, so it... So everything in, in that, of course, then you can do reels on, you know. So every business, whether you're running a corner grocery store or you're a restaurant or a podcast or coaching or... You need to be on all the platform right now. So for me, it was book and podcast and lectures and keynotes and social media, all of it. It's all- Yeah, that makes sense. Mm. Yeah. Now, before we get into the quick-fire questions, Boaz, one, one final question from me. If you had to give one piece of advice to a founder who is thinking about making a major pivot later in their career like you have done, what would that advice be? I would say two things that are contradictory on purpose. I would say know why you're doing it. Get to know, really understand, spend the time, the intellectual muscle exercise on why you're doing the pivot. 'Cause most of us do pivots out of anger, out of revenge, out of like, "Oh, he did that to me, so therefore I'm gonna do that to him," you know? Versus so there's no an internal, um, engine on why I'm doing something. So get really clear of why you're doing that pivot, why you're interested in that pivot, before even doing it, right? And then I'm gonna say something exactly 180 degrees from that. Know that it's not gonna turn out the way you think. Oh. Ah. Mm. Because, you know, I always used to tell my invest- investor that came to my office, and again, a lot of investors came to my office, public companies, like, you know, insurance companies, hedge funds. And I used to show in Excel, I said, "Here's what I wanna promise you. I guarantee that this Excel is not gonna work out." And they're like, "What do you mean?" I said, "Because it never works out this way." Like it says 23% return a year. It's never 23%. It's either higher or lower. Life never turns out the way you think. Never, never, never. So be more fascinated, curious, in love with the pivoting, not the result of the pivoting. Become a pivoter. Mm-hmm. Does it, does it make sense what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. First of all, know why you're going, know you, why you're going on that journey, but then become a traveler. 'Cause whatever it's, you think gonna turn out, it's not gonna turn out this way. It might be by far more exciting and more amazing, or it's gonna be by far less- Mm-hmm or somewhere in between. Yeah. But it's never gonna turn out the way you think. Oh. Yeah. Goosebumps on that one. Yeah. Fantastic. That was great. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. All righty. Quick-fire question time. I think it's time. All righty. So, Bowez, what we like to do with each of our guests is fire 10 very quick questions at them. We'll do it alternately, and we ask you to answer them in a sentence or less. So are you ready to go? Yes, I am. All right. You ready to go, Colleen? I'm ready. All right. You gonna take us away? Yep. Okay. All right, go. Office or work from home? Uh, home. Okay. What was your first job? Uh, waiting tables. Your go-to productivity hack? Uh, wow. Uh, productivity hack. Uh, ChatGPT. Oh. Mm-hmm. Android or iPhone? Android. Wow. Ooh. There we go. There's one. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What's your coffee order? I'm, I'm all the Android. Yeah. Yeah. My whole family's an iPhone. Yeah. I refuse to. Yeah. Most, most people say iPhone, so stay strong, Bowez. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. Yeah. Stay strong. Yeah, yeah. I'm Android, Android. Yeah. What's your coffee order? Oh, uh, so I don't eat till 1:00 PM, that's one of the 90 Games things. I do intermittent fasting. So it's black Americano. There you go. Mm-hmm. Until 1:00 PM. Yeah. Th- same as me. Yeah. Yep. No, that's me too. Yep. All right, if you weren't doing what you do now, what career would you choose? Something that brings business and art together. So maybe an architect. Something like... I'm, I'm just like, you know, just some- something I really like. Uh, look, I'm so privileged. I really do what I love, and I've done numerous career. I told you I was working restaurants, and I was a actor, and I was a real estate developer, and I was a teacher. Like, I'm still teaching. Uh, uh, but if I literally had to do like something guys, it's nothing to do with I've done before, I would say something that kind of brings... I'm, I'm very good with business, and I love the art and the creativity elements to it. So some kind of maybe like an architect, something that still have to look at budgets, but still design something that's, you know, about beauty and usage. Yep. Mm. What's the best in- That was more than a sentence. Yeah. No, that's okay. That's all good. Well, what's the best investment you've ever made? I married my wife Good answer Yeah. Correct answer Right? Good answer, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she'll- Yeah, yeah if she's listening, correct answer. No, look, look Yeah No, but, but I, I'm, I'm g- if... Can I end, can I say one thing about it? Of course Or... Okay. So look, I, I, it's a good answer, not because she's probably gonna listen to this podcast eventually, it's because, look, when things were really ba- bad and I lost, I went to 2008 crisis where we, or my portfolio was erased, and then when my company, I lost everything. The, the anchor of support was my wife. She's like, "Who, who cares? We'll, we'll manage." She, she, she had more belief in me than I b- myself, and that was the best investment Wow. Mm. Who cares? We'll manage. I love it What a great line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you an early riser or a night owl? I'm an early riser Mm-hmm What's one piece of tech you could not live without? I would say AI now Yeah I just love it. I use it all the time. I made sure I'm the thinker- Mm and it is the editor and the co-thinker. Yes. Yeah. I'm really practicing not being lazy. It's so easy to be lazy- Mm with ChatGPT. So I'll give you an example. My Substack, and I'm very transpa- I'm very transparent about everything, I write without anything for 45 minutes to an hour, and then I add, I, then I, uh, uh, upload and say, "In the spirit of our journal, you write what you think." And I was like, "Man, that's too weak. That's too..." And by the way, I just interviewed someone for a job, and I saw people got back to me right away. It was written by ChatGPT, the answers, and I was like, "You're not using... I want you to use ChatGPT, but, or whatever AI, you know, whatever you wanna use, um, but I want you to do the thinking before you answer it." Yes Instead of just dropping my question and like giving me the... So yes, that's- Yeah The human element needs to remain, yes Yeah, absolutely Still for... Un- until, until they take over completely, and then we're, you know- Yeah We're done. Yeah, then we'll be insignificant, right? Yeah. So... All right, last one. Yes. What's your book or podcast recommendation? Sam Harris. Anything Sam Harris. Anything Sam Harris. Uh, Sam Harris is... Yeah, he is a, a neuroscientist. He's a philosopher. He's, uh... And I love his- I use his, uh, meditation. Uh, uh, I started meditating. By the way, another game. Me, I was like an alpha male business manager, like no way, and I meditate probably four or five times a week. So I use his, uh, his app for meditation. Okay. Uh-huh. And I- Check that out love the deep conversations he's having with people. Yeah. Awesome. Fantastic. Yeah. And one final question I'm really looking forward to ask- asking you this in particular. Yeah. If business truly is a game, Boaz Gilad, what is your definition of winning? My definition of winning is abundance, is, uh, having a lot of, uh, clients, have a lot of money, have a lot of impact, which is the most important one for me, but have abundance. Just looking and saying, "We have a lot of it." Yeah. Mm. That's great. Yeah. And where can our listeners find you and your business online? Sure. So, uh, so I'll, I'll, I'll set a little caveat to it too. I, I make a, I made a, a true commitment to be available. So you find a way to reach out to me, I will get back to you. I don't care. So you can find me obviously on LinkedIn, Boaz Gilad, you know. You can find me on, uh, uh, Instagram, and, you know, and, and Substack. I would love you to read my weekly articles. They're short and they give exercises in the end. Oh, fun. Uh, so yeah, yes, any place you can find my, you know, me anywhere, send me a message. If it's the book, the podcast, whatever it is, uh, I'm, I'm available. Great. Well, thank you so much. Mm-hmm, yeah. This has been such a, um- Fantastic a hu- yeah yeah such a great conversation. I've- Mm pulled so much away from it, so thank you. Yeah, yeah. The insignificance. Oh, it was so much fun. Yeah. Really appreciate it. A lot. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. Yeah. I, I, I'm really gonna take on that practicing insignificance, um- Yeah, yeah might, might calm down my reaction to some drivers from time to time. So, uh- Yeah yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, all right. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Perfect. Well, that's all we've got time for. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game, and check out the playlist for the level of business you're currently playing. Because every founder is somewhere on the game board, from zero all the way to over $50 billion. Choose your level, and we'll see you next time