I'd be terrified if the pilot took a shortcut and didn't do the same thing. Humanoids are very relevant in manufacturing because our manufacturing systems, um, we enable humans and human, human capacity being scarce. When should we be done? When is this system working well enough that the customer can now take it? It's okay to mess it up. It's, it's fine. Just let's, let's learn from it, let's fix it, and let's move it on Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels from zero to over $50 billion so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level seven, which sits in the $500 million to $1 billion bracket, the global expansion stage. At this level, the company operates across countries, cultures, and risk environments. The challenges? Multi-country leadership, international expansion, risk management, and early-stage M&A. The goal? Design a global organization that can execute consistently across borders. Hello, and welcome to The Business Game. I'm Kaleena Stena. And I'm Steve Plummer. Make sure to like and subscribe wherever you're watching or listening. We're joined today by Darragh de Stendun, CEO of Automated Industrial Robotics, a global automation company with more than 550 people across the US, UK, and Ireland. Over the past 25 years, he's helped transform AIR from a collection of regional engineering businesses into a single global automation platform. Today, Darragh is leading a $180 million business through its next phase of growth, integrating acquisitions across three countries, navigating the rise of physical AI and humanoid robotics, and betting that one day the data generated by industrial robots could become even more valuable than the robots themselves. Let's dive in with Darragh de Stendun. Thanks so much for joining us today, Darragh. Really excited to jump in this conversation with you. You're a busy man, so thank you. Yeah, likewise. For our listeners who are meeting you for the first time, can you talk us through specifically what, um, Automated Industrial Robotics builds? Yeah. So at, at AIR, you know, we, we build manufacturing systems, automated manufacturing systems for Fortune 100 companies that produce everyday products. I, I'd, I'd say even all the way down to Australia, you, you-- our products are-- you've touched, um, be that medical device, um, orthopedics, uh, hips, knees, um, syringes, car components, uh, car batteries, roof liners, um- cleaning, uh, uh, detergents from your house. Um, our manufacturing systems, the automated systems help those customers produce those parts and bring them to market for us to consume. Wow. Wow, that's incredible. Mm. So- Mm if we rewind back to the beginning, who was young Darragh, and what were the specific chapters that led you to become the CEO of Aiir? Yeah. Uh, I, uh, obviously from my accent, uh, I grew up in Ireland, uh, had an apprenticeship at Guinness's. Um, fell in love with au- with automating things, making people's lives easier through engineering. And, uh, in the very, very early days, the first piece of automation I did was that, uh, it was a Gu- it was a drink that Guinness had, and you'd pour it, and there was two nozzles, and out of it came the white and the black and, and you had, like, a Bailey's-type drink. And in that we had to automate, uh, because people that were putting the screws on the bottles, they now had to put two screws on the bottles. So we made a, a tool that, uh, made people put two lids on the bottles, uh, uh, at the same time. So I fell in love with engineering ideas at a very, very young age and making people, uh, better with that. And with that, I went on a journey to, uh, learn about automation, um, educate myself into degrees that would enable me to do that, um, move to America to go work at the largest, uh, companies that were utilizing automation. And, uh, yeah, from there, I got the desire to, uh, stop engineering systems and, and build a company, um, around automation and engineering skillsets. And, uh, very, very fortunate, uh, to be, uh, doing the job I am today. Yeah. Wow. Long, long journey. 30 years. Mm-hmm. That's incredible. And it's, uh- Somebody should've told me how to do it sooner. I f- I love that the, um, there's a, the Irish start point with the Guinness. Yeah. I think that's pretty cool. It had to be, right? It had to be. It almost had to be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What a fun starting point. Had to be. It's always cliche. I, I should ch- I should change that. Yeah, yeah. Have you got a Guinness tap in your house? That's probably the big question. May- maybe that, maybe that's why it took 30 years. Yeah. Yeah. True. Oh, funny. All right, Darragh, you're currently playing at level seven, where businesses stop thinking like regional operators and start thinking like global platforms. So you've said the biggest breakthrough was recognizing Aiir couldn't stay a federation of regional integrators. What were you seeing in the business that told you the model had to change? When, when you look at our industry, I mean, there's, uh, the great thing with lots of competition, you get to really analyze, you know, what works well, what doesn't work. Um, working with the best customers in the world, you get to hear their pain points. And when I looked at it-- When we set out in buil- building Aire, as you said, true, uh, we've acquired six businesses to date, um, each business operating on its own will only ever be as big as it, it can be. And you reach a level where process, systems, culture, capital become necessary to take it past that next level. So when you think about founder-led businesses, and I, I say-- I, I, I'm not saying this, this is the case with every business. There's been breakthroughs where small businesses have scaled, uh, very, very large. Um, but in, in a lot of cases, you-- the processes, the systems are not in place to allow a founder-led business to distribute that workload, distribute the responsibility to allow that company to grow and flourish. And, and, and that's, that's one of the biggest things, um, we certainly saw at Aire And I saw it in being able to serve our customers in the way that they expect in the fast-paced world. Um, what we build for customers in Ireland, um, our customers also operate in America, and they, the expectation is that we can do the same in America. So that forces that heavy integration to become a company, um, with a global presence and not single entities operating and serving customers, but being that collective company. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So this might sound like a simplistic question, but how did you know what to do? Knowing what to do is, I mean, there's no playbook as such. In, in, in businesses, in good businesses, in great businesses, there, there isn't necessarily a playbook that says if, if this, then that. Yes. Yes. In engineering terms, yeah, you're, you're closer to that, right? Yeah. In programming and things like that. Yeah. As a business, it's about developing that team, developing that culture, um, that allows us to react. Yes. You know, the b- the best thing about Aire is, you know, we set a path, we're designing something, we're working on something. Everyday life happens, and our ability to be able to pivot and deal with that as a team has informed, like, how to do it. Um, listening to our customer needs, listening to the engineering needs and our system n- our system needs, and being able to react as a team to change to the challenge and to the opportunity that's in front of us, um, is really what's led us to be where we are today. So it's not one person as such- Yes it's the culture of the company and the team that allow us to react in a way that, that enables us to be successful. Yeah. Yeah. So just one quick follow-up question on that. W- the way you changed the model from that federation, excuse me, federation of, of individual companies to a, you know, more homogenous company that could serve bigger markets, what was the potential cost of not changing your operating model? Mm. The cost would've been, I mean, if I start with culture, you know, we as a company, we, we- The culture formed by enabling us to work together, um, and that formed a very unique culture between England, Ireland, and America, and I, I put that as the biggest cost. Um, developing and harnessing that cos- that culture that allows us do the things that you just asked, that allows us to react, allows us to pivot, allows us to be informed and collaborate as a team. So not doing it, I think that would've been the biggest sacrifice. Um, the second would be showing up for our, our customers in, in a more meaningful way in, in how much the- our customers can depend on us across the globe and not being reliant on, on one facility. That would, that would've been the second, uh, thing and, um, yeah, I, I-- that, that's what would've sacrificed if we, if we hadn't had done that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, Darren, I'm really curious. Uh, I don't think you can have a business conversation anymore without talking about AI- Yes and I think in robotics we're really gonna lean in here. So- Yeah everyone's talking about AI right now, but you've been very deliberate in focusing on physical AI, particularly humanoid robotics. So you've said the real opportunity is the last 20% of manufacturing, so the variable. Manual tasks that conventional automation can't solve. Can you tell us what that means? When you look at manufacturing-- So yes, I, I agree with you. AI is, is the center of everything and, um, for us as a business, you know, we're not a startup. We're an established business working with customers that need to bring real products to market, um, products that we all depend on. So we're not a playground for new technologies. Um, we, we, we have to deploy proven technologies. It's similar to an airplane. You know, you don't, you don't play around with an airplane. Um, you wanna make sure that that's safe and it's taught through. Um, and with AI, we're very, very cautious about what tools we deploy, um, that enable our system. And when I look at what, what we build today, we build amazing manufacturing systems that bring those products to life, and when you look at the manufacturing in general, and I'll speak for only for America for a second, um, the manufacturing efficiency of equipment can be around 60 to 80%, 80% being great, um, meaning the equipment is available to produce 80% of the time, uh, similar to us working Monday through Friday and taking Saturday, Sunday off. Um, the automation doesn't. And that inefficiency is driven through facts of manufacturing life, be it tolerance, stock-ups, p-people efficiency, building environmental requirements, what-whatever, whatever that would be. 20% of the time in a great case, sometimes bigger, but at, at 20% of the time the machines are not working. Lost productivity. And focusing AI into that, I mean, it makes... Our machines are great, and they'll iterate and become better, and new technologies will emerge into them, and they'll, they'll become better. But the biggest opportunity in front of us is being able to help that 80% become 90% and 95%. Um, whether it'll ever be 100% is a thing, but that, that's where our focus is, and taking new tools, new ways to assess data and inform ourselves is really where, where, where we spend a lot of time, um, in that. Yeah, sure. Mm-hmm. Just for anyone who, uh, might not fully understand what, uh, physical AI is, could you give a- just a quick little summary or describer? No. Of course I can. Yeah. So phys- phy- so, you know, you look at the physical AI is when you're actually taking something and seeing the impact outside of the machine. So when you think about, you know, robotics and you see them moving, you know, today when you look at a robot, it- it's, it's quite complex, complicated to program. Um, but the robot is doing what it's told to do. It's, it's instructed, it's scripted. It's a play as such. It's orchestrated, uh, by systems. AI becomes much more disconnected from needing a, a, a set of rules in order for it to perform. Um, the robot and, and the ph- the, the AI then becomes physical in when it starts to take over that physical world, be that in something that's moving around and interacting in our world. The physical AI then starts to... It becomes physical. It becomes outside of the machine in something that we can see moving and not in a ChatGPT-type environment when the computer screen is talking back to you. As real and as human as that feels, um, the physical AI is when we can connect physical de- devices into the AI, into the neural networks, to have them interact in the physical world. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah. So where is physical AI at currently, sort of behind the scenes? It's advancing at a, at a, at a very, very fast pace. Robotics, humanoids. You, you speak about humanoids. Humanoids are very relevant in manufacturing because our manufacturing systems, um, we enable humans, and human, human capacity being scarce in a lot of cases, um, humanoids are an obvi- an obvious go-to, and there's a lot of companies out there, uh, de- uh, developing and deploying, uh, humanoid robotics. They will need to work hand-in-hand with manufacturing systems, and, and AI will drive that and in- inform them and enable them. Um, there's a lot of- AI being used in manufacturing today, be that the writing of software, um, vision systems, so when we look at quality. Um, if you think about a, a, a self-driving car, a self-driving car is almost impossible to program it and tell it all instances that it's going to encounter. Yes. So the, the AI is able to do that by able to make a decision based on being educated. Um, you s- you do see a lot of that starting to come in in vision systems when you're looking at, uh, product quality on inspecting. Um, so if you're inspecting a, um- Uh, a p- a painted surface, it, it, it, it's very, very difficult to program and tell a vision system all of the imperfections that it might see in order for it to catch it and deem it a reject. And, and we see AI today being utilized heavily, um, to open up that spectrum and educate those systems and train those systems, um, in what to be looking for and, and, and have it determine then through its education what good and bad is. Um, so we see a lot of that going on, and, and we as consumers, um, are getting better products, um, uh, due to that. Um, the output is greater because the margin of what is good and bad can be extended, and you don't have to limit that in, um, to be able to, uh, deem a part bad. Um, so volume- volumes can increase, and that does touch to that 80, to that 20% of inefficiencies. There are elements where AI can help us, uh, produce more and produce better. Yeah. Right. So it's evolving fast, and it's, uh, awfully exciting. Yeah. Awfully exciting. Why do you believe that that's where- Far from scary. It's- Not, far from... You're not scared? Wow, okay. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah, no. Certainly not in the manufacturing I'm not scared. I- That struck a note with you? Yeah. Yeah. Not being afraid. I, I... Yeah. I was gonna ask why. Why are you not scared by that? Because a l- a lot of people change, you know, rapid change, rapid change in a- Yeah an unk- very uncertain world. Why does that not scare you? I guess I come from, I come from a space that w- you know, we're- we, we deploy and engineer technology, so we need to understand them very well, and we embrace them. Everything we do in automation, we embrace technologies. And when we look at AI, um, put, put the question of where's AI in 10 years for humanity, I, I, I can't answer that or touch that or form a view on that. Yeah. In the auto- in, in the manufacturing, AI is w- going to be, it, or is one of the most enabling technologies that we've seen in, in, in, in, in such a long time. Yeah. And embracing those technologies, I've seen what, what it can do for people. I see what it does at AIRA. I see what it does for our customers. It makes us so much better- Yeah so much more efficient. And when a human is more efficient, like, it's amazing what we can do. Um, and it really is a tool. You know, if you go back to the calculator or you go back to mechanical drawings being with, uh, uh, uh, pencils and paper and rulers, as fun as that was, um, and when software came in and started to kind of automate that, that, that made us better, that made us quicker, that made us more efficient, that allows us iterate products. I get awfully excited about, you know, the products that are going to come to market on maybe a faster pace, you know, um- AI is gonna, in manufacturing, really help analyze tolerance stack-ups, make manufacturing better. Um, you think about medicine, um, the ability that AI is gonna give us to get to a conclusion faster- Mm. -to be able to simulate things quicker, to take out some, uh, human error in some cases. So, like, what products are going to be created and how manufacturing is going to be, I think, is awfully exciting. Awfully exciting. And, and, and, and, and people that embrace that technology and understand it are going to be awfully powerful, um, in, in the job that they do. Um, and that's definitely a culture at Ayr that we drive, is one of curiosity and, and to embrace tools and, and put them to a good use. Um, the biggest risk with it, I guess, where I would be, not to sound naive in it, but where I would be worried, um, is, you know- Taking shortcuts with tools, uh, um, is, could, could be very dangerous, right? Mm-hmm. Yes. In utilizing AI- Yeah where it might feel, oh, I, I can get this email written quicker, or please respond to this, you know, I feel like taking shortcuts with it is, is the bigger risk, and then that we, we start to lose the, the true substance of the matter. Um, so, so we, we definitely, uh, try to avoid that all the time, to understand to use it as a productivity tool, and, uh, understand when you're about to take a shortcut, and think about that twice. Mm. Oh. That we don't want. Yes. That, that we absolutely don't want. I'm really glad you- Yeah glad you mentioned that. Yeah. I think that that's... We had another guest speak about that as well, about AI can be quite addictive, and I think that you're sort of leaning into that in a certain way, in that if it's a shortcut- Yeah, just easier, right? It's easy. Instant, instant world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, shortcut. But I think what you've said there, you've highlighted, is very important, um, in that, yeah, don't be using it as a, as a shortcut. Use it as a tool that, for which it's built for, which I think is really important, so thank you for sharing that. Exactly. That, that, that is exactly it. Um, we- in, in, in, in mature systems, shortcut... If I, if I go back to the airplane, um, because I, I spend a lot of time in them, um, I'd be terrified if the pilot took a shortcut and didn't do the same thing. Even though they just landed it, they still get out, they do the checks, they go through it. They're not taking any shortcuts. And, and, and, and in manufacturing, the systems that we have developed over decades, the technologies, the standards, um, the know-how, like, that didn't come from taking shortcuts. And, and, and, and, and that's the risk, um, as these things get deployed, um, is doing it in the right way, so very, very focused on that. But yeah, amazing technology, and in manufacturing, it's, it's, it's, it's, it- we're just gonna get better products. Um, it's, it's, I think it's, it's great. Yeah. Wow. And with, with all of that, do you see- how do you see AER moving forward? With, with the way that you're structuring and utilizing AI, um, with AER, how do you see that in the future? Do you see yourself leading that market? Yeah, what, what's in store there? I think, I mean, I'd love to lead a market. Um, I'd love- But, you know, the, the, the automation industry is so big. Yes. Um, I, I hope- Yeah all of the automation companies embrace the technologies and bring them to market. Uh, the OEMs that we acquire components from, I mean, that's, that's definitely a collective that we can push the initiative of, uh, enabling manufacturing to be better than it is today. Um, that's something we all have to do, and, uh, we play our part in that. Um, and, um- AI will, will- when you think about the, the time it takes to build our systems, AI will reduce that timescale in bringing manufacturing systems to market, um, which will bring-- We get very excited about medical devices. Being able to deliver a medical device line faster and get product to consumers quicker together with our customers is something that we're very excited about. That, that, that has a big impact on, on us as consumers, and AI will do that. And I think AI will make, um, people that interact and use automation, it, it'll inter- They, they'll be able to speak to it, talk to it, um, interact with it different. They'll be able to do additional things. They will be able to educate themselves further and, and, and the- And if you think about programming, programming today with AI, um... I wrote I, I- a, a s-small side story on it. Um, I had a- I have a motorcycle here that didn't have a fuel gauge on it, and, uh, I guess the older you get, uh, the more of an inconvenience that is. And I sat down one night, and I was like: I wonder, I wonder could you make an app that you could tell the app when you filled it with gas, and then with the GPS on your iPhone or your phone, um, would it be able to track the miles driven and create like a virtual fuel tank? And I was like: Yeah, that'd be kind of cool. So I went looking and tried to find something like that and couldn't really find something like that. So I said, "You know what? Um, we use AI and we write programs. I wonder could I, could I create an iPhone app that does exactly this?" Uh, so I did, and I did that without writing or knowing how to write a piece of code, and it took four hours And about 50 of my friends have it now. Oh. Wow. And when I think about, that's using AI, that is, that is a, that is a maybe a silly example, but if, if I that don't know how to program but I can take an idea and turn it into a product without re- knowing how to program, like, there are opportunities to be able to embrace those tools and do something very creative. Not that a, a, an app in, in that sense is creative, but the embracing those tools as individuals, and when I think about the manufacturing, um, how we can make people better and more productive and open up those avenues using these tools, I think is very exciting. And I think that's where AI will ultimately take in the manufacturing space, make things more efficient, faster to market, more reliable, more dependable, um, and, uh, ultimately get us, uh, better products. Yeah. Mm. Incredible. Yeah. Wow. D- Dara, I wanna, I, I guess talk a little bit about on the ground. I mean, being in the manufacturing space, big outlay, capital outlay in terms of, you know, warehouses, machines, and so forth. How... And sometimes it can be a chicken and an egg thing. Can we afford that investment or not? How have you gone about decision-making around big capital investments? We as a company, when we get hired to build a manufacturing system, um, it's very much hand-in-hand. That capital investment is being made by our customer to invest in the manufacturing to bring those products to market. Um, right? So, so- The customers, when they're trying to make that decision, it really comes down to the quality that needs to be produced, the volumes that need to produced, and the market demand. And we tailor our systems around our customer's business model. We, we try to lock onto that as, as, as close- Uh-huh as possible. I see. What are the tolerance, what are the qualities, what are the speeds, what are the outputs, and what do they need to make their business model work? And we back into that and engineer the solution for that which is driving then to dec- di- driving to the decision for that capital investment. We as a company ourselves, um, when we're making capital investments in our, uh, technologies, uh, our training, our people, our facilities, um, that is all, uh, all those decisions are made around the long term and what we are doing to enable ourselves to be that technology, that engineering, that automation partner for our customers. Um, and every investment we make is, is anchored in that. Are we making ourselves better for the long term to serve our customers and the bigger purpose that we're, that we're fulfilling? Okay. Yeah. Right. All right, so that's I wanna look ahead now in terms of, uh, a, I don't know, a huge statement, a controversial statement you- you might have made in that you've said that the data coming from deployed industrial machines could one day become more valuable than the machines themselves. So help us understand, I guess, the commercial logic behind that. Mm. What data is being created, and who ultimately will pay for it? Yes. Good question. The, I mean, we live in a data-rich world. Um, you know, today, today automation is also I guess if you think about buy- it's hard to buy a bad car, right? If I, if I go back 20 years, like cars don't necessarily break down. It's hard to buy a bad car, um, if you're brand agnostic, right? Uh, cars have become quite commoditized. They, they all work, and, and it's the nuance that attracts you, uh, to them. And automation, the componentry has become so reliable, automation systems across the board, um, I, I wouldn't say they're commoditized. They're, they're heavily engineered, but the componentry within them is, is somewhat commoditized. Robots are built in the millions. Uh, they work. They're reliable. So you have to say, where is the, uh, what, what is that next step in the value creation in the automation and the manufacturing system? And it does start to get to the data. How can you make-- How will your systems run better? Because they all already work very well, and they work good, so how do you make a good system great? And, um, we are users of technology, so we're, we're, we're somewhat dependent on technologies advancing that we can deploy in a, in a way that isn't considered reckless, so our machines continue to perform the way our customers expect. And when we start to look at the data, data informs us what the machine is doing. There is terabytes of data, um, running through our systems, sensors, temperatures, speeds, um, like an unbelievable amount of processed data. When, when we assemble something, if you think about a motor, um, in a motor there's a shaft, and that motor is pressed in, uh, to the stack of the motor. And that press force enables the shaft and, and the motor to spin together, not to slip, not to break. And that's an engineered design. And, and in that we set ourselves tolerances. Um, the design for manufacturing, you, you design your smallest case and your biggest case, and then you make sure that all those scenarios will fit and the product will function The data that the machines collect will show you variability in a process. And when you wanna make a process better, make a process more reliable, the answer to that is not just good parts coming off the line. It is how do you optimize that? How do you optimize your supply chain to make a tolerance looser? If you make a tolerance more loose, uh, the less expensive that part is. The more accurate a part is required to be, the more expensive that component is. So if you want to analyze and optimize, the optimization of that lies within the data, and the automation system collects that da- it generates the da- the- generates it, collects it, and then you would have to come to the conclusion that that data is very, very valuable to it. Our customers own that data. They, they run the machines. It's their data. Um, but what do we do with that data? How do we analyze that data? How do we inform those d- those engineering decisions that can make a product potentially less expensive, make a product better or iterate it? And that's where that data becomes very, very valuable. And in the world that we are living in today, artificial intelligence is amazing at analyzing such data and masses of data that aren't really designed for human consumption. They are collected by the terabytes, and AI is well able to as- to assess that really, really quickly. And when, when we engage with that, we are able to analyze it and make those, those suggestions back to our customer, and I believe that that data is very, very valuable, um, as a source of, of optimization for products and automation. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Wow. Mm. So, Dara, you're competing for work alongside much larger automation companies. So when a customer is also talking to, let's say, a tier one integrator with 10 times your headcount, what's the honest case for AIRR? Where do you genuinely have an edge that isn't simply being cheaper or more flexible? Hmm. Yeah, it never comes, it never comes down to, uh, really being cheaper or, you know, systems it's, it's, it's the, the value that has been sold. Um, it, it, it, it comes down to I've been very fortunate with, with, with my partner, Brian Klos, who I, uh, found- co-founded AIRR with. Um, I've been very, very fortunate to be able to put a business together. Bus- businesses today, the larger systems such as- the companies that you speak of have, have, have grown over years, um, and they've become who they are. And when I listen to customers, there's an agility that gets lost along the way. Yes. There's an agi- the- being agile and caring about the really small things as well as being focused on the big things, um, and that's where AIRR plays that we, we by design, we will never break the- The ability to care about the very, very, very small things, the small details that our customers get challenged with. And, and there's a lot of smaller companies out there that do that. And the problem with that, and why Aiir came into existence, was customers, if you solve a very, very small problem, that no- that, that small problem could be the absolute unlock for a product to be iterated and brought to market. So on a $10 million system, a problem that was, that was solved for $50,000, but a lot of knowhow and, and thought that went into it is the unlock for that big system. And when customers work with sometimes smaller companies that can have the time, have the agility, have the focus because they're not distracted on a $10 million system, um, typically what happens is the customer says, "Great, we've solved it," and now they have to go and find that larger integrator and, and you have to transport that knowhow, that what did we do, what did we learn? And Aiir, we will forever keep that agility to care and, and, and be there for our customers to solve those things that they're, they're struggling with, and also be there to help them scale. There's two things that, that at Aiir that we do for our customers. We help them innovate their products. We're not product designers, we're automation designers, so we help them design and we design the process. We help them solve that manufacturing challenge, and then we help them scale their production. They're the two things that we do, and we'll never break that. So when we, when we go up against a larger competitor, um, typically more times than not, we have helped that customer solve that manufacturing problem, and then that's core to us. And that team then is enabled through the size and scale of Aiir to be, to be that, I wouldn't say one-stop shop, but that partner that can take it from the, from that, that, that problem-solving through to the, to the larger manufacturing system. Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Derek, can we talk about- Stay agile- Yeah in design. Yeah. Uh, actually, well, and just on that, and can we talk about the challenges of running a company at your level? So you're at level seven, and um, so you've got all of these, I guess, balls in the air simultaneously. You're building for tomorrow, you're maintaining, um, quality. You're, you know, you're looking at innovation and all those sorts of things. So how do you stop all of these things becoming a, a bit of a muddle and you keep things on track and, and, and growing and, and humming along? Mm. 'Cause it can't be easy, right? No. Yeah. I mean, there's, uh, I, I don't think there's many easy things left in life. Um- and certainly doing what we do is, is, is complicated and difficult. Um, it, it really comes down to, and um, it, it really comes down to Aiir as a company- We, we have built such a culture that every person, team, discipline is enabled, and they're rallied around doing it right. Maybe as simple as that sounds. We, we, we set ourselves a standard. If we can't do it right, if we can't do it well, it's not a- it's not for us. And we stay very focused on what we set out with each product- project, what are the objectives? What are the non-negotiables? What can't we break? And, and we hold ourselves to that, and that does balance us in, well, there's this new cool technology. Um, you know what? That-- we n- no, we, we, we s- we risk assess that, and, and, and, and we regulate ourselves by that deliverable. We, we can't compromise on our deliverable, and it's very self-regulating. And when you have so many disciplines to deliver something, um, you know, I, I always go back to Formula 1 as, as an example. There's a huge team behind the driver in that car. Any one part of that breaks down, the tire gets on slow, so the, the smallest of things, every single thing is important, meaningful, and has to function. And at Eir, uh, culturally and through our integration, we have enabled that and kept that, and, and that really keeps us straight, keeps us focused on delivering systems that our customers depend on and we as consumers, um, rely on. The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your fourteen-day free trial. Mm-hmm. So capital formation has now become a part of the conversation for you, um, as your position at Aiir for acquisitions and the physical AI opportunity. So for someone who built the business through operational excellence rather than the financial engineering, what have you had to learn about thinking and speaking that language of capital? Yeah. I mean, for me as a-- I, I, I've spent so- y- th- th- thirty years engineering solutions and solving problems at the engineering level, and when you, when you look at building, building the company that we have built today, um, you know, I have to start thinking different. It's, it's not about what I can solve as an individual, and it's about what the teams are enabled to do, what the teams can build. And when we look at solutions, it, it's kind of like a painting. When do you stop? It's in the eyes of the painter. When, when, when is that finished? And in engineering terms, it's never done. Like, it, it's never finished. It, it- there, there's a line where the job is done, we've achieved capability, we've achieved what the customer's looking for, and now it's time to pass that off that somebody can continue to iterate and continue to make better and maintain. And, and that becomes the financial, when you think about capital decisions, is being able to establish that line. Um, it's never obvious- it's, it's never an obvious line that, "Oh, there, we're done." It, it's, it's really testing and iterating and, and holding that back to the commercial aspect of it. Like, when, when, when should we be done? When, when is this system working well enough that the customer can now take it? Um, and knowing when, when, um- Knowing when it's good enough and, and, and, and, and to pass that on. So that has become the biggest challenge is understanding, we call it the line of compliance. We- we're always hunting with our customers what does to be compliant mean? Like is a product... W- w- what, what's that mean? What, what does it mean to be compliant? How polite is polite? What is that line? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And we establish that line, we hunt for that line with our customers, and that drives financial decisions. What is that line of compliance? Um, and then in, in our operations, we hold that line of compliance to make sure that we don't over-deliver, we don't under-deliver. Over-delivering can give a more complex system. That's, that's not great. Um, you want a system that's simple to use and reliable, and you don't want a system that, that doesn't comply. Um, so, so identifying that line of compliance, holding that line of compliance, and tying that all into a holistic system, um, that is ultimately being decided through a capital acquisition and a business plan has been, has been the biggest challenge and the culture that we have formed in a, in an engineering business where you, you can engineer and polish it forever. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah, Darren, can we talk a, a little bit about product lifestyle, s- excuse me, product development life cycle? One of the things that you've said is that nailing that down really gave your business a spine. Mm-hmm. And so I'd, I'd love you to talk through that, why that was important, and what the, that actually meant. Yeah, it, it comes into two things. There's-- When, when you have businesses operating around the world delivering a, a, a common objective for customers, we, we, we have projects where we have engineers, um, in England, engineers in Ireland, engineers in America working on the same project. Culture, standards, um, ve- not very different, but they're d- they're different, right? Uh, it's, it... And we, we developed that, uh, PDLC model which we call the spine of, of what we do, right? It's we're not changing cultures or the soul of our businesses, right? The, the, the spine is we, we, we all show up in the same way. We design to the same standard. We've agreed upon what good looks like. We've agreed upon how should the robot be mounted and told where its start position is. So we're all like, "Okay, it starts at the bottom right." Um, and, and, and that's this- but that's in the how we do it. So when a customer shows up in any of our facilities, um, the start button's always bottom left. Um, the home button's always top right. And, and these are maybe simple examples of the, the spine of how we work, the, the library of it, the standards. And we've rallied around that as a company, rallied around it, harmonized around it. We've been very, very fortunate to be able to take six businesses to date and to be able to say, "Guys, here's a white piece of paper. You're all really, really good. Let's try come up with an even better way of doing it." And, and, and, and culturally, that's really exciting because rarely do you get the opportunity to look over into your neighbor's, uh, activity or your competitor's activity in that sense to see how they do it. Um, so it was a very, very unique situation and one that we cherish and one that we enable, and that creates this standard. And what we don't want to break is the soul of a business. Um, and, and, and in England and Ireland, there's nuances, there's regional, um- cultures and, and, and, and we want that soul to stay intact. And then together, AIR creates its soul where everybody comes together and rallies around that how we deliver. And, and, and, and that how we deliver, we're forever chipping away at it to make it better. And the collaboration that we see when in England or in Ireland or in America, when, when, when we've come across something that we might not have seen before or a different flavor of it, it's like the teams rally around it and say, "Wow, okay, cool." Um, so that becomes familiar. Um, maybe like a neural network. It- it's like a neur- like when one robot experiences something and gets better, all of them get better at the same time. And at AIR, um, it's very, very similar. When, when, when a project manager experiences something, um, dur- in their proj- project, that all of our project managers get to get that information at the same time through that spine of how we operate. And that, that has been the one and biggest thing that we- o- one of the hardest things to do, um, that we have done and, and, and something that is- it's invaluable to us. And, and I don't think you could ever say there's a playbook to it. Um, it happens. It's, it's bringing the right companies, the right people, the right culture, and, and, and really m- that, that happened. That-- And, and yeah, that happened. But that's, that's what brought that together. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And what did it actually take to implement that system- Yeah across three countries- Yeah, yeah and hundreds of people? That's right. It's a good question, Roz. Because, because egos. Yeah. Human beings are imperfect, right? And- That's a lot of navigating yeah So how did you- It's- How did you manage that? Oh, the way we do it in England's better. That's the best way. Although- Yeah no, no, yeah, that's a, a really interesting question. Mm. Yeah. And they won't be saying that after the, after the soccer today. Um, the, um- For sure, you, you, um, you... I- I'll, I'll hear that tomorrow when my, uh, colleagues are, uh, online. Um, you know, it, it is very, very hard to do. And, um, one person, when we go back to founder-led businesses, um- At Ayer, we had to make sure that our business grows and scales through processes, rigorous process and integration for us to be able to scale and continue to grow and, and we can never limit ourselves around a handful of people. It's about how do you enable an organization for that change? And, uh, we set out, um, in each of our, each of our disciplines, there's about 18 different disciplines that are core to what we do, and we established through those businesses, um, from each of our facilities and companies that we acquired, we said, "You're part of that team." Um, this isn't a dic- d- dictated, "We are doing it this way." Like that, I mean, I think to your point on humans, I, I, you know, I, I think the majority of the people, if you tell them what to do, they'll, they'll, they'll, they'll say- Yes "No, I'm not, I'm not doing that." Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, um- We're a bit locked in on that as humans that's just a m- that's just a fact of life. Yeah. Yeah. To, totally. Yeah, I'm not d- no, I'm, I'm definitely not doing it now. Um, and, um, so there's no point in trying that, and there's a lot of examples, um, in, in the, in the industry where maybe things like that didn't lead to success. And we took the approach, it is a collaborative effort, um, and we established working groups that, uh, that lead that function. And, and those teams were empowered with the vision. They were empowered with what the output was, and, and, and those teams collaborated together and, and I am sure, I was not in those, um, but I am sure because there was tiebreakers, we do it like this here, and we do this like that there, and, and we challenged and we grappled, and we came down to a, to a decision and said, "This is, this is the way that we will do it." And not only th- that, and that is only a point in time. Our business is forever iterating. Technologies are changing, challenges are, are, are being solved, and our process iterates all the time. So if one person did-- felt, "Oh, my way was better, but I'm, I'm just, I'll go with it because that's the majority", over time, I can guarantee you- That that changes, that iterates. A standard iterates. The situation changes, technology changes, and that swings around to, well, yeah, this- the way we did it back then is more applicable and, and appropriate for now. And so, so allowing our business to harmonize together in understanding what it is that we're trying to deliver and harmonizing around what we're doing for our customers allows that process to iterate and, and we encourage curiosity, we encourage iteration. Like, we don't want to stand still and say, "This is how we do it, and this is the only way." Um, but we set ourselves those, those, those guide rails that we don't iterate too much at risk of breaking something. Um, and, and, and that keeps that glue together and, and that really is-- that is not 10 people. That's, that's, uh, well over 500 people driving that mandate, being part of the company, and that's something that we don't wanna break. That's something that we have, and we recognize that, um, I certainly recognize that, Brian recognizes that. That is core to who we are and, uh, we, we will do everything in our power not to break that or ignore it or take it for granted. Absolutely not. Um, absolutely not. That, that is, that is-- And, and companies that we continue to acquire will, will, will-- It's easier, I guess, now to, to show and feel culture by being able to give examples. When we were just one business or two businesses and three businesses, um, that was very, very hard to make sure that we're, um, on the right path. And now moving forward- Companies that want to join Eir and, and become part of the team, uh, you know, open up the doors and come on and see it, meet the people, meet the team. Um, so yeah, it sh- I, I really h- we'll, we'll never lose it or take it for granted. Never, ever. Wow. And, and I assume that's quite, it's an ongoing thing, isn't it? I mean, pe- people will need reminders and reiterations and, you know, you're always working on that. Is that a fair assumption? Absolutely. It, it, it's, the reminder is it, it, it, it, we don't remind people as such in that sense. It, it, it, j- the processes that we have implemented, the, the, the culture that, that we harvest, um, at Eir does that. Being curious, um, at, at, at Eir there's, uh, we, we love confronting, um, the brutal facts in what's going on. We, and, and, and that's a cultural, that's a very hard thing to do. It's really hard to identify what the brutal fact of a situation is. Again, we're all human and, and, and, you know, sometimes you, you want to hear what you want to hear to fit a narrative. Um, and, and I, it can be, I think, in private life a- as well, you know? If you've got a sore toe and the one doctor says you have to have an operation and the other says you don't, you're like, "Oh cool, I don't." Uh, you really need a third opinion- Yes uh, to kind of settle that, right? Independent to, to, to, to break your own bias. And, uh, we drive a culture of confronting and ident- You first you have to identify the brutal fact, and we spent a lot of time doing that. What is the truth? What is, whether we like it or not. And, and, and, and then, and then we assess that, and just that culture of honesty, that culture of it's okay to make a mistake, it's, it's gonna happen, we're doing very complicated things, um, drives that iteration to be better. And, uh, and it doesn't drive, um, like mistakes been made and been hidden. Um, like it, it doesn't do that. It's, it's okay to ma- it's okay to mess it up. It's, it's fine. Just let's, let's learn from it, let's fix it, and let's move it on, because we do not want to ship something to our customer that, that i- that, that is not what it should be. And, um, and I think within that, that reminder, it's always there in front of us. Um, it's always there in front of us, and, and that cultural aspect to iterate and strive to be better, um, it, it, it just became part... It, it's, it's what we do. So a reminder is indirectly there every day Wow. It's- Yeah it's true collaboration, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's really what you've built. That's, that's the answer. Yeah. You know? The one common way that you're getting everyone to work the same is collaboration and that encouragement, and it's a, it's a team sport- Yeah essentially, is how I'm seeing that. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Let's, however, talk about the pressure- Yeah. of, of leadership- because, you know, this is no small operation you've got. Mm-hmm. As we said, you're at level seven. You've got more than 550 people across multiple countries, time zones. Hundreds of families rely on the decisions that you and your business partner make every day. So do you f- still feel the weight of that responsibility, and, and how do you carry it without letting it consume you? I- that weight, myself and Brian feel every day. Um, and the, the day I don't feel it is the day I'll stop doing the job. Um, when that becomes w- I, I'll stop, I'll stop doing the job. Um, I balance every decision that I make, um, first and foremost with the culture and the people that, that make Eir what it is today. Um, the second that comes to that is in what we are delivering for our customers. And, and if there's ever a conflict in those things, that's where I sit down, and myself and Brian will- w- we, we, we will, we will really unpack that to make the right decision. And the weight of- Our people trust not only the leadership of Ayr, they trust what we are building. They trust that the next thing that we're going to acquire is gonna make us better. And, and, and that weighs on me every single day. Um, I can't even describe because I don't think people would believe it. Um, friends of mine always say like, uh, "Are you, are you, are you coming out at the weekend?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I've got, I've got some stuff to do." And, and, and, and people that are very close to me get it. They're like, "Yeah, he's consumed with something." And, and, um, I do not do a very good job at that work-life balance. I, I-- The biggest weakness that I have is that. Um, my wife will tell me all the time too, uh, she says, "The biggest thing I had to get used to you with was the way you, you just commit yourself to the business." Uh, the business is, the business is my life. The commitment that we make to our shareholders who trusted, uh, or trusted, trust, uh, Brian and myself to do the right thing, the people that have committed and sold their businesses to Ayr, um, that weighs on me every day. Uh, that's what drives and motivates me every day. That informs decisions that we make, that we don't just say, "Ah, yeah, let's do it, and let's see, see what happens." That, you know, that, that... I, we, I don't do that. And, um, I, I do not do a great job. Um, I do, I, I do a good job at carrying that weight and owning that weight and that responsibility, but that balance between work and life, um, I, I don't do a very good job at that. Um, work consumes me and, uh, and that's okay because I love it. Um, I chose to do it. I'm fortunate to be doing what I'm doing, and I take that as the motivator in what I'm building and the trust that people put in me, and being able to stand back at the end of the day and see 'em, see the people that work for Ayr, um- Having a better life, our customers having a better life, and ultimately seeing the products that come off our equipment, I mean, that, that, that's what drives me. That, that's my hobby. That's my hobby. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. So I think most founders we speak to at your level feel that same way. Yes. They're very tunnel-visioned in. Yeah. And so for anyone listening, do you have any tips on switching off and staying grounded when you're carrying that level of responsibility? Well, just after what I said, I don't think I can give any tips. Okay. I'm, I'm, I'm not doing a great job at it myself. Fair enough, so you don't switch off at all. Yeah. Okay. Nope, that's all right. But no, I- Maybe we should get your wife on here. How you doing? Yeah, yeah. Maybe your wife. What, what... Yeah, exactly. Um, yeah, this might go viral then. Um, no, uh, the tips I could give is, you know, people d- people deal with things in a different way and, and, and, and- In doing something like this and taking it on, the, a lot of, a lot of successful people have said, you know, if you're, if, if you're working with urgency every day, you have a chance of being successful. And really understanding that, because lots of companies fail. Um- Yeah at Aiir, we're being quite successful at what we're doing, and I, I, I tell you, for, if I take my foot off the gas pedal, um, and the team take it off, like I, I don't know what happens. I'm not willing to look and see. Um, I act with urgency every day. Our teams act with urgency every day, and I think if, if, if somebody that is trying to do this, that, that's not for everybody. Making that decision to, to... It's not about putting the company first all the time. Um, I spend a lot of time when, in the evenings, you know, you're sitting out, you're thinking about stuff. Our engineers, I can't tell you how many meetings I've gone into and the engineer starts with, "I was thinking about this last night. I was thinking about this last night, and I had the idea." Um, how many times I could tell you if somebody said, "Oh, I had a dream about how we'd solve the robot." Like, people don't switch off, and, and, and certainly in that, what you just described, is that you have to, that you have to want, you have to love it, you have to embrace it, you have to live and breathe it. And, um, I, I'd, I'd, I'd be quite happy if, if you find somebody that tells you that the, the work-life balance, um, you know, I'd, I'd, I'd love to hear some examples. 'Cause, uh, the biggest criticism, um, I would get at Aiir is he, he gets up at 4:00 in the morning and he switches off at 10:00 at night. Um, he never stops. And, uh, my team tell me to, I, I, to, "Take your vacation. Go on holidays. We're not calling you." That is the biggest criticism that I would get. Um, but I don't know it any other way, so I can't tell you what the flip side of that coin looks like unfortunately. Would you say that it- And I'm too old to change now. Yeah, that's it. Would you say that it's a fair assumption to say that you're the same person, um, at work as you are at home then if you're not switching off? Yes. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Oh, absolutely. Do you wanna think about that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just, I just told you I sat down and wrote an iPhone app- Yeah for the lack of a fuel gauge on a motorcycle. I'm gonna need the name of that app, by the way. I, I would've hoped though there would've been a, a pint of Guinness next to you while you were writing that app, right? At least. At least. Just a little bit of- At least health. Yeah. There was a gla- there wa- there was a glass of whiskey and a cigar. That, that, that, that for sure. That, that's, that's, that's my outlet. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, okay. So leading a global business is a very different job from leading a small engineering team. So- Mm-hmm how has that responsibility changed you personally? Leading a business, I, it's, it's really quick- I still feel this today, um, and, and a, a lot of people that I would coach and mentor, I feel myself sometimes grabbing the keyboard to do it myself When the pressure's on, I, uh, when I was a- an individual contributor, I had control of what I was doing. I was, if I was, uh, writing a quotation, designing a system, um, I was self-contained. Um, I- Air would not, you could- the company would not survive if, if, if leadership, um, incl- did that. So the biggest shift is, is, is taking that engineering knowledge and applying that to the mechanics of a business. And, you know, every business is different. I guess they're all similar in they're delivering a product, they have a P&L to run, and there's, there-- I, I do see an awful lot of similarities in the mechanics of how a business, how the, each department has to run and function, each department has to be self-sufficient. So I do look at it in engineering-solving ways. Um, understand the problem, understand what we're trying to do, and what are the, what are the, what are the things available to me to make that successful? And, and the pivot is now I have a bigger team, now we have bigger systems. Um, and, and I make sure that when we're solving a problem, it's not an individual hero story. I always make sure that the true solve for a problem is that collective, collaborative, uh, effort, and the systems and the process help solve that, and the teamwork help solve it. So moving from an individual engineering contributor to, and taking those skill sets and applying them to a business, um, I guess was the biggest transition for me, going from that into leadership. Um, and then over the years, being able to hone that and play that out and make enough mistakes to be trusted with the job that I have today. Yeah. Wow. It's an interesting observation, Caoilfhinna, that that urge to, "I'll just do it myself"- That's so common it ne- never really leaves you, right? No. You, you still fight it- Yeah by the sounds of it, though. Yes. I do, yeah. I do. Um, and that's not-- I, I fight it. It, it, it pops up, not true, um, not true, like, lack of people's ability or anything like that. Um, when things come to my table, it's typically li- it's typically on fire. Um, I, I, I-- when I call Brian, it's like I, you know, "Tell me something that isn't on fire." And like, you know, and, and then you have to struggle to listen. Like, if it's not on fire, you take a deep breath and you're like, "Oh, okay, uh, this, this-- okay, that's not normal. Why is something not on fire?" And I think people in my position, typically when it comes to your desk, it's already escalated. It's already a problem. Um, your process might have broke down somewhere, so you're, you're in that, "I need to fix it." And when you have a big business like we do, um, you need to fix it fast, and you need to get to the root cause of that fast. And that's where you catch yourself. That's where you catch yourself, um, not- Jumping into it and solving it and trying to fix it yourself, there, it's a balance. And, and, and in fixing a problem is where people learn, um, I learn or people learn. It's where you gain knowledge. It's where you gain experience. And when somebody goes in as an individual and says, "Ah, it's all done, it's all fixed, it's all good. Whew, that was lucky," like that's not the answer because nobody learned from it. Um, so that's where you- I al- I always find myself through the urgency, "Oh, I'll, I'll do it myself," and then I catch myself and I say, "Well, that's not how you lead. That doesn't build an inclusive culture. That doesn't build one of mentoring or bringing people along." Um, so it's striking that balance. It's striking that balance. Yeah, that's like that, is it a Chinese proverb of the f- um, catch a man a fish, he'll have- Yeah, yeah one meal or something and then- Yeah, teach him to fish teach him how to fish, he'll feed for life Yeah. You know, whatever that is. Yeah, whatever it is. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. All right. We, we are just about out of time and, and getting to the quick-fire questions, but Dara, one last question for you before we go into those. If someone listening is a few levels behind you and they're running an engineering or a services businesses, and business, and considering acquisitions for the first time, what's the one lesson, the cheat sheet, the, the shortcut- Mm-hmm that you wish someone had taught you that would've saved you the most pain? I wouldn't say there's a shortcut. Um- Building robust, scalable processes sounds like the easiest thing in the world, but really taking that time- because when you're building something and scaling something, urgency, everything, it- everything feels like it's on fire. Taking the time and finding that balance to build the robust process around it so the next time it happens, more people can catch it, taking the time to do that right, knowing when to listen to that. A good friend of mine said to me, "The busier and busier you get, and the bigger your companies get, the harder you're gonna find it to listen." I never really knew what he w- what he meant, um, un- un- until I knew. And, and, and that's re- that, that is the hardest part, and that is the part that, you know, whe- whether, whether you listen to it when you're told and do it is, is, is another thing. But, uh, building robust processes, procedures that you can build that good foundation upon, really, really important. Because after... And that is why at Air we set out to integrate ourselves from day one. It wasn't an afterthought. We did it from day one. It was part of the founding strategy of Air. We are going to do this, and we are going to build our robust processes and tools around it for that very reason. Um, and that really sets the stage for Air, um, to deliver better and greater things to our customers, and have a company where our, our people can have an awful lot of fun in, in, in a technology world. So yeah, get, get that right upfront and invest the time. It'll, it'll pay back. Yeah. That's great advice. Yeah. It'll pay back. It'll pay back for you. I, I, I do have, I do have one more quick question. Is it easier running a, say, million, bill- $2 million company versus a $20 million company versus a, you know, 100 and something million dollar company, or they just have different challenges along the way? They have different challenges along the way. Um, they, it, it- they are all difficult. Um, they are all difficult. The people running the smaller, the medium, the large are at different stages in their career. Um, they, it, it- they are, they are all difficult. They all have their challenges. Um, one is n- I- when I think back, um, I looked at an old presentation that I did in 2013- It was for a smaller problem, but it was the same challenge. Um, the same challenge. It's j- it's just bigger. Uh, the teams are bigger. You know, when done right and scaled right, um, yeah, I d- I, I... Th- they all have challenges, and dealing with challenges is difficult. And, um, yeah, so no, it's... Running a bigger business is definitely not easier than running a small business, and vice versa. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Thank you for that. If you don't- Yeah. Yeah, thank you. If you don't love the process, it's probably not for you, is it? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It doesn't get easier. Totally. Yeah. All right. Yeah Quick-fire question time? I think so. All right. So Dara, we ask our guests, uh, quick, 10 quick-fire questions. Colleen and I are gonna fire them off at you- Yep just to get to know the person behind the microphone just a little bit more. So we ask you to answer them in a sentence or less, um, each of the questions. You ready to go, Dara? Mm-hmm. I am. All righty. Ready to go. Colleen, you ready to go? Yes, I'm ready. All righty. Okay. Shall I t-take the lead? Yeah. Why not? Okay. Early riser or night owl? Oh, early. Early. 4:00 AM every day. Nice. Mind you, you did say, too, it was a 10:00 PM finish, so uh- Yeah let's, yeah. Yeah. Well, define late. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Define late. Yeah, true. Yeah. One piece of tech you couldn't live without. iPhone. What's your coffee order? I couldn't live without my iPhone. Mm-hmm. Fair enough. Uh, black, no sugar, no milk. All right. No milk. And, and, uh, uh, dark. Dark. Mm-hmm. The best investment you've ever made. In myself. Training, educating myself- Sure uh, continuously educating myself. I only... Yeah, I, I can only give you a sentence, but that- they're the investments I've made in myself, and, uh, yeah. Hmm, that's great. Office or work from home? Office. I, I love the collaboration. I love being around people. Teams has, uh... COVID opened up a new world for us, but office. Yeah. Mm-hmm. What's your book or podcast recommendation? I love Joe Rogan for the variety. Um, and I love, um- I guess any, any thriller. I love the thrillers. Uh, I, I, I, I, any thriller. Uh, Patterson I love. Um, but yeah, Joe Rogan Podcast, very diverse, love listening to them, and, uh, hope to be on it one day. And, uh, yeah, thrillers. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, and I think I already know the answer to this one- Yeah. Android or iPhone? Yeah. Uh, iPhone. I do play with Androids, though, as well- Oh, okay to understand the technology. Surprise, surprise. Okay. You don't often hear that, right? No, no. Yeah. I, yeah, no, I love, I love seeing products iterate and, uh, the technologies, and, um, I live in the same world. How can I do it better? And I love to see how different phones, different models do that What's your go-to productivity hack? Time management during the day, setting blocks of time aside to get, uh, tasks done. I, I'm rigorous about that. I, I block time aside. Uh, if I have 10 things to get done, I prioritize when they're getting done and block manage that through time, and if I've not finished it, I stop it and I move on, and, um, and, uh, get back to that then at the end when it's settled and the brain is allowed do what it is designed to do and think about things while I'm working on something else. Mm. Yeah. Nice. Mm. What was your first job? Car mechanic. Ooh. Ooh. There we go. Yeah. A car mechanic That adds up at Omagh, um, when I was at school. Yeah. Car mechanic it does add up. All right. Last one, Darragh. If you weren't doing what you do now, what career would you choose? I would have liked to have been a lawyer. Wow. Ooh. I love litigating, mitigating. Um, I love really understanding the problem, uh, to put that best foot forward, and I think if I wasn't doing what I'm doing, I think I would have been a, a lawyer. At one stage I thought I would've wanted to be a pilot, um, but I, I, I... Yeah, that, that never happened. I think that, yeah, that wouldn't have been for me. Yeah. The diversity and challenge, I think is where a lawyer would've been... I would've enjoyed. All right. And I've just got one final question for you. If business truly is a game, Darragh Des Dundon, what is your definition of winning? I think if the company, if the company runs better because of the systems and the people and the standards that we built, um, and we keep doing right by our customers when I'm not the one making the call, if that's the case, that's winning. Mm. Mm. Yeah. Great answer. Mm. All right. And where can, uh, our listeners find you and your business online? Industrialrobotics.com, um, is where, is where you'll find us. Um, and, uh, on LinkedIn, and, um, pretty much at all, all the big tr- automation trade shows. And, uh, yeah, if anybody's interested in learning more about AIR, just reach out. Um, and, uh, yeah, we'd love to tell you all about it. Mm. Great. Well, thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. This has been... It was great. Yes. Yeah. I've learned so much about robotics and the systems- Yeah and I'm a systems gal, so I feel like I... Everything you were saying, I was like, "Yep, yep, yep." So, uh, thank you so much. Oh, no. You're very welcome. Very much enjoyed talking. Yeah. Thank you, Darragh. I love that the, um, that urge to do it never leaves you, right? Yes. Like, that's... No matter how big the company gets, that's... Yeah, it's a really important self-checking for people, I think. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. That's when you know you're doing something you love That's when you know you're doing something you love Wow. Mm. All right. Well, that's all we've got time for. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game and check out the playlist for the level of business you're currently playing Because every founder is somewhere on the game board, from zero all the way to $200 billion Choose your level, and we'll see you next time