Focus on the one where you can spend $10,000 and make 200 grand. I have days when I literally cry. I was giving myself a hard time. I'm a deca-millionaire. You know, I have a family, I have friends. What's wrong? I see everything like a motherboard. Life is ones and zeros. Everything in life is math. You either want the product or you don't. Just don't waste my time. If I have a problem in life, I either fix it or I tolerate it. I never complain. The secret to living is giving. Does it make the world a better place? Do I like the people? Can I make money? Welcome to The Business Game, the show that breaks business down into real levels, from zero to $200 billion, so founders can see exactly where they are and what comes next. Today's guest is playing at level six, which sits in the 50 to $150 million bracket, the architect stage. At this level, governance, data, finance, and infrastructure can't be informal anymore. They must be engineered. The challenges? Enterprise systems, compliance, cross-functional complexity, and financial sophistication. The goal? Architect a resilient data-driven organization built for serious scale Hello and welcome to The Business Game. I'm Steve Plummer. And I'm Kalina Stano. And today we're joined by Robert Indries, managing partner of Elkridge Advisors. Robert has generated more than $500 million in business value, built and scaled a portfolio of businesses, delivered hundreds of projects across 19 industries, and successfully exited an AI venture through an eight-figure acquisition. Today, Robert is playing at level six, where governance, enterprise systems, compliance, and organizational infrastructure become critical to continued growth. Right now, he's navigating the challenge of scaling systems across dozens of acquisitions each year while leading teams across multiple countries. Let's dive in with Robert Indries. Robert, welcome to the show. Where are you joining us from? Thank you so much. Uh, I'm in Europe right now, uh, just enjoying amazing continental weather. All right. Wonderful. Fantastic. Well, it's a warm welcome to you. So we actually spoke to Patrick Rogers from Elkridge, uh, last year, um, so we're so excited to have you on in this new format of The Business Game. So can you tell us about yourself, about Elkridge Advisors, what they do, and about your origin story to get us to where you are today? Of course. So I was originally born in a, a very small town in Transylvania. Um, 2,000 people, you know, total in the town, um, about. And, you know, we were on a farm, you know, just raising cattle, feeding chicken, you know, working the land, you know, stuff like that. And then, um, I quickly realized, you know, that I, I keep wanting to do more and wanting to do more. Um, I was lucky when I was 10, I landed on a book, uh, called "The Evolution of Technology," and I fell in love with it. It's like, oh my gosh, the, the, the cover of the book was a dissected vacuum cleaner, and I could see the engine, how the air flows, everything, and I was, "Oh my God, that's amazing." And I just-- I read it cover to cover, and I was like 10, right? And it was a huge book, and I really liked it. And I, I, I decided I wanna be an engineer, and luckily I became one, right? So, um, I, I went into, uh, a very technical, uh, high school. Um, we had, you know, I think we had nine hours of, of, uh, computer sciences, six hours of math, three hours of physics, you know, like crazy. It was just like all sciences. Really liked it. Um, then, you know, I went into college, you know, the university for engineering, and so I just kept doing that. My first venture was an engineering company. I still own it to this day. Um, so, uh, I mean, I don't own it anymore. Sorry. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm running it, but I sold it. Um, so that's one of my exits. Um, so I sold that for seven figures, but, uh, the person buying it wanted me to stay on, so I still have a minority share, and, you know, I'm still running day-to-day ops. By running day-to-day ops, I mean I spend maybe one hour a week, you know, checking in on stuff, making sure things are going well. Um- So after that, I realized that I can use my engineering brain to engineer systems within companies. Mm-hmm. So I started doing that. So I, uh, for me, you know, I'm, I'm also a little bit autistic, so the entire world for me is zeros and ones. You know, there is no gray area. You know, if you want, you know, to have a gray area, you know, go be an artist Right. Or something, you know? But, but in the world of business, there is no gray area. You either did it or you did not. You know? You, it, the, the, you either showed up or you have not. You, you know, the task is done or it is not. You know, there is no gray area. You cannot half do a project. Mm-hmm. Right? Because the project is either completed or it's not completed. If you've half done it, you haven't done it. It's a zero, right? Yeah. And so I, I had this conversation many times with many people, um, uh, that i- and it just simply does not work like that. Uh, y- your-- if you get the client, you know, a- and he ordered a pair of shoes, he won't be happy if you send him one shoe. Yeah. It's not gonna-- you know, you either send him the two shoes that he ordered or you did not. Mm-hmm. You either sent it on time or you did not, et cetera, et cetera. It's all, all zeros and ones, right? You can make up for a zero, no problem. I'm not saying that, right? Like, or you can say that we didn't deliver the project because the client was a pain. Mm-hmm. The end result is still the same. We didn't deliver the project. H-how did we manage that painful client? That's the question, you know? That's the intrinsic question you ask. So, um, I see everything like a motherboard. Everything is, you know, uh, voltages and circuits, right? If you don't have-- we are-- we had great teachers. I was very lucky in, um, uni, and they told us a, a design, a circuit board design is not complete until you have redundancy on every circuit, right? Because if you imagine a circuit board and there is no redundancy, there's just one line, one piece of everything going anywhere, if you have a crack, like literally you take a knife and you crack one of those, uh, uh, lines, the entire thing falls apart 'cause there is no redundancy. You can literally just break a line and it's done. The entire system collapses. So in the world of acquisitions, you know, we call that key person dependency or key system dependency. You know, depends what it is. But you remove that one person, the previous owner or the CEO or the, you know, one, one back office receptionist that's actually doing all of the heavy lifting for the entire company that no one talks about- Yeah right? Uh, you remove that one person, and then e-everything just collapses. No one has any idea what schedule they have tomorrow and, you know, where do they need to go, who do they need to speak to, what, you know, and so on. Yeah. So, um- I, I realized I can use engineering, right, to engineer great businesses, and then I started doing about one to three a year, you know, for, like, the better part of a decade. Um, and then that's how I got to 11 businesses in parallel. At one point, I was, you know, at the peak, uh, of my own portfolio. Yeah. And then I started having exits, um, because I, I realized that, you know, you can also exit companies at one point. You know, I said, "Okay, well, why not, you know, trade in the next five years of my time to just get that money right now, right? And then I can do something else, you know, with my time." And so I started doing that, and then we started doing it at scale for, you know, within Elkridge Um, Patrick actually, I was on his podcast many years ago, I think like four years ago, and, you know, he grilled me on how, how to run companies effectively, and he was in shock at my answer. Like, he was like, "Uh, Robert, no one does this." I'm like, "I know. That's why everyone's poor." You know, statistically speaking, you know, just look, just look, 96% of businesses never pass seven figures in their lifetime. Whoa. Doesn't matter how long they are. Mm. You know, 96% never become... And, and here, you know, the Instagram fame is like, "Hey, start a business so you become financially independent." Yes, good luck with that. Yeah. Statistically speaking, you never will. You know? So, um, that's the thing, and that's the realit- reality. It's a very harsh reality. Um, and, and people are not fed this harsh reality. They're, they're fed the, "Oh, I'm gonna quit my job, you know, do a business because, you know, I have higher chances of becoming wealthy." False. Hmm. You know, n- 90% of wealth is, you know, uh, doctors, lawyers, engineers, you know, uh, accountants, blah, blah, blah. Like, just look at the 90 something percent of w- it was not built in business. It was built in careers. So, uh, I, I had that conversation with Patrick. He was, um, um, very, uh, let's say, um, pleasantly surprised by the conversation. Then we s- uh, stayed on- online for a long time after the podcast. I, I think he m- might have even missed a meeting or something, but we just kept talking for a while. Um, and then we stayed in touch. We, we did the small levels of business together, and at one point he said, "Robert, I wanna start Elkridge. I wanna combine M&A with business operations because no one's doing that." Only private equity does that, but no one at the, at the smaller market, right? No one buys businesses and then manages them as well. You know, most M&A firms, they're brokers. They, they buy and sell. They're very transactional, right? That's all they do. But in our case, we buy to keep, right? So, so we buy a busine- every time we buy a business, we basically add more to, to our portfolio, but it's not just ours, right? We have a fund, and so we have investors that come invest with us, and then we have our own money, and then we leverage also with banks. We have a lot of connections. But long story short, we just keep acquiring and acquiring, and then we add that within, uh, a stack of ever-growing companies within our portfolio that we manage for the investors, right, on their, on their behalf. Um, and, and, and then we also have, you know, the trusts and the tax stuff. So- Uh, I don't know if you are aware in trusts are, like, one of the best tax saving mechanisms. Um, and they're perfectly legal, by the way. I wanna make, be very clear. There, there might be illegal ways of doing it. Don't do that. You know, you don't wanna go to jail. But there are legal ways to do trusts that are perfectly... You know, in, they're literally in the tax code. Like, you literally have trusts in sections within the tax code, and it's explained. And so as long as you fit within the tax code, you're fine. But then we basically, one of the rules of, of Of trust is that if you're the beneficiary of a trust, you cannot also be the manager. Yeah. Uh, you- y- there has to be at least two entities, and you-- in some cases you have three entities 'cause you have, like, a controller, like someone checking on, on all three, right? But, but basically you have the beneficiary is you, the person that is about to collect $10 million in an exit, and the manager needs to be someone else, right? So in, in that case, we are the managers of the trust, and then 10 million just lands into ju- that trust, and then we have a fiduciary responsibility towards the trust to, to invest the money properly, right? Into stocks, real estate, other ventures, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and so that's also something we... And we do a plethora of things, but basically, um, Patrick invited me to Elkridge, he w- he's the original founder, um, because he, he said he wants someone on the operational side. You know, Patrick is an amazing, uh, very ethical person. Um, he loves talking to people and, and having relationships, you know, and having partnerships and so on. But he, he, let's, let's use the term dislikes, uh, the nitty-gritty, the sheets, the, you know, someone needs to follow up on X and blah, blah, you know, like all of that, that needs to get done. Um, and so we, we have a very huge appreciation for each other. I, I do not want his job, not even for a bit. Like, he talks to so many people every day. I get... I have this one conversation, I need to take a nap. I'm, I'm in trouble. Like, I cannot do this, right? But then he can just do this all day. Like, he goes to conferences, you know, he meets people live, you know, for lunches and so on, and I love him for it. Like, he does all of that, and then he makes me speak to no one. You know, like, no one even knows I exist until sometimes, you know, they find me on the website, and then they ask for a call. You know, but otherwise, I'm, I'm just very happy, you know, doing my geeky stuff, you know, in the background. It, it sounds like there's a beautiful balance there- Yeah out of different skills and- I was just thinking that personalities and so forth. So to be clear, Elkridge Advisors is not bound by borders. You invest across countries and continents. Is that correct? Co- correct. Uh, people need to understand that their, the, the place of their business affects their multiple. So you cannot ex- ex- uh, expect US level multiples, right? If, if you're in a like, let's say, whatever, I wanna make something up, you know, Taiwan or, you know, uh, maybe Taiwan is, is a bad example nowadays. But let's say, you know, you're in, uh, whatever, Ni- Nigeria, right? Right. You need to understand that you're less investable And has nothing to do with you. It's, it's completely racist, let's call it, or whatever you wanna call it, it doesn't matter. But, but we live in a world of business facts. Again, I'm, I'm zeros and one- Mm and ones, you know? So, so banks lend harder in Nigeria. It's more, more grueling. Uh, it-- like, no one in the US, you know, where we have hundreds of millions to invest, is gonna want to invest there, or statistically speaking, no one's gonna invest, right? Like, when they can invest in fast-growing, stable, secure businesses in the US, why would they do that in Nigeria and other countries, right? Yeah. And so I'm, I'm, I'm saying this to, to say, yes, we do invest in other countries, but people in other countries need to be mindful, you know, of, of how investable they are. Yeah. If you have a local, uh, M&A firm, a local investor, local whatever, they might value you higher, but they might also have less money, you know, to invest. So the end result is basically the same, you know, because they're not gonna pay. You know, they can say, "Oh yeah, yeah, you're valued at $10 million, but I only have five to give you," you know? And so i- in that same vein, you know, maybe we can give you seven. You know, yeah, yeah, we, we see that you're valued at, at, uh, uh, at 10, but we want a 30% discount because it's in a language we don't speak, in a country we never go to, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So, so we need a discount, uh, to, to basically it... Uh, everything is risk, so if anyone listening, uh, wants to understand how M&A work The, the riskier money-making is, the less you get for it. So every business you assume will make money, as it has up until now, right? Because you're buying EBITDA. You're buying, let's say, a million in EBITDA, you get 5 million for it, let's say. You know, I'm, I'm s- oversimplifying it. Yeah. But if you have key person dependence, if you're in the middle of nowhere on an island no one heard of you know? If, i- if, if your, if your clients, you know, like let's say one of your clients is 60% of your revenue. I don't know. This is like I'm, I'm making these up. But if all of these are stacked upon each other, all of a sudden you're not worth 5 million. Maybe you're worth, you're, you are worth 2.5 on a good day, you know? And so b- because there's so much risk attached to it and, and you need to be very careful. Um, one of the places where we invest in real estate, for example, is Puerto Rico because it's still an amazing, um, like it's, it's ripe. Like you get huge ROIs. Hmm. Like twice as much as you would get in mainland, mainland US. At the same time, um, Patrick calls it the Wild West of, of real estate investing, you know, because it's like just an island in the middle of nowhere. It, it feels like it. Hmm. You know? And so, um, you, you're careful. You know, you really need to be very careful as to what you do. But we have connections and we have literally, you know, uh, part of the team, the core team we have in the US, have family, uh, connections there. You know, they were, you know... I, I wouldn't say born there, but to a certain extent, you know, uh, uh, large part of their family are there. So, um, because of that, we can literally buy land that, you know, for free. Wow. Then, you know, uh, build resorts and business centers, anything we wanna build, right? So if anyone listening, you know, wants to own a $20 million resort for, you know, half the price, then, you know, they, they can reach out and we can, we can do something together. So that's, um, that's how we've gotten together and, and that's why we have this dynamic, you know, going on now. Hmm. Yeah. Wow, what an incredible story. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Wow. Um, I just wanna pick your brain for hours on- Yeah, sure everything that you do. Yeah, sure. Um, so you've said that one of the biggest breakthroughs in your career came after losing all of your savings in an early venture. Uh, I'd love to dive into that a little bit. So what did that experience teach you, um, that still influences the way that you build businesses today? I think very good question. Um, so I, I am by almost all definitions a dreamer. Uh, I, I read books. You know, as you can probably see, uh, these are all of my business books, and then we have a completely different library for all the fiction. And so, um, in the end, we have a book nook under-- Like, it's like a U-shaped library, and then under it we have, like, a bed, uh, for, uh, two, three, four people. Oh. And so we literally just cuddle up, you know, my wife and I, and, and read, and that's one of the things that brought us together. Uh, we're avid readers. And so I like, you know, Lord of the Rings, you know, The Hobbit, um, uh, Harry Potter, you know, all, all of these. Like, and I'm just mentioning a few that are very, very common, you know. But then, uh, a book I just finished, uh, reading was The Midnight Library by M-Matt Haig. Oh, you- Highly recommend if anyone wants to, you know- Yes. Good uh, chill. I had a very good conversation and learned a lot of lessons. Um, The Midnight Library is amazing. Uh, and Matt Haig in general, like I've read like several of his books, and I can't believe he, he, he combines personal development with storytelling so well. Like, you can't even tell you're learning, but you are, you know, whilst you're, you're learning from other people's life experiences. It's like the, The Alchemist from Paulo Coelho. Oh, I was gonna say it's like that. One, one of the originals I've read, you know, a long time ago. I was like, "This was such a good book." And it was, it's tiny and, and, and, and the author, Paulo, wrote it in like three weeks or something because it was in his mind for years and years, and he just never had the time. Like, the guy I think was like in prison at one point or whatever for, for s- like it's, it's crazy. But I don't know. Uh, he started writing when he was like 40 something and then just couldn't wait to get this story out, and in like three weeks he wrote it. The, the fastest I've ever written a book was like six months, and it, it felt like it was taking forever. It was waking up 4:00 a.m., going to bed at 12:00, you know, just to get hours of writing in- Yeah you know, so I can finish the book. Oh, wow. Um, but so co- coming, coming back. Um, it-- I'm, I'm a, a very big dreamer, you know, and, and I'm very, um, corny, you know, and so on. I wanna believe. I really do. I always want to believe, you know, in the love story and, you know, uh, the, uh, the fantasy and so on. So- When I was younger, I started listening to, I, I wanna say audiobooks, but they weren't audiobooks back-- They were like, uh, CDs, programs, you know, that you can listen to. Um, and so I got everything I could from Brian Tracy and from Tony Robbins and from, you know, as many people as I could, basically, whomever was, you know, famous. Uh, I, I believe, you know, Zig Ziglar and, and so on. Um, who was that guy? Jim Rohn. Yes. Yeah, I loved his... You know, the way he would speak, he was so funny. Like, you could listen to him for hours. Uh, and he was so blunt as well. He's like: "Look, if you're fat, you ate too much." You know? He's like: "That's it. Uh, just, I'm sorry. It's just you ate too much. You're, you're clueless." So he, he was, he was very funny at, you know, telling truths, and I really appreciated him. Um, I was listening and, um, one of the rules of life I picked up, I believe from Tony Robbins, um, whilst I was listening to those, um, I was listening to them whilst I was a marathon runner, so I'd just run for hours and, you know, just listen to, to those. Uh, I literally had, like, the CD players, you know, if you remember those. A-and, um, you could You, you, it was very motivational and you, he was basically saying, "Just do the work. Just add value." You know, I even remember the quote, "The secret to living is giving." You know, and so on. And it's just like you, he just had these things, you know, that he would keep saying over and over, and it would just ingrain in your brain, especially if you're like a, a late teen, early 20. You know, this, you're, you're getting it like a sponge, you know, and you, you take it as, as, as, um, a biblical lecture at, at that point. And, uh, so he-- I was taking that all in. And so I started my company, uh, or one of my companies believing that, um, if I add value, people will reciprocate and pay me the fair amount for that value. So we started doing work for people and just did work, did work. I was paying people very well, you know, fair wages and so on. And we would finish projects, and then we would-- I would ask people, you know, "Okay, like, what do you think you should pay for this?" Horrible conversations. Horrible. Like, just, like, incredible. Like, they're like, "Well, what is this worth? Like, $1,000?" I'm like, "Well, three people worked on it. Each one of them has a salary of $3,000. So just my direct cost is 9,000. That's without accounting for my own time and not, not accounting for legal expenses and other tools we have," blah, blah, blah. "So my actual hard cost is, like, 12,000." Right? And then they're like, "Oh. Okay. Well, uh, I wasn't expecting to pay that." Right? And so very, very mad conversations, um, because people almost always undervalue the, the effort that goes into something, um, because in their minds, you just build an app, or you just build a website, or you just, you know, do sales. You know, it's like they, "Oh, yeah, we-- You had 100 conversation number ones and then 40 conversation number twos, and then 27 contract negotiations," blah, blah, blah, "and then you finally close the deal. Oh, I'm just gonna pay you commission." Wow. Yeah, I-- It's just I, I don't even have a conversation at this. If anyone comes to me and expects to not pay me... And so this is-- this was the lesson, right? I'm getting ahead of myself. But I basically lost all of my life savings investing in a business by that, uh, philosophy, and it just was so bad at one point. You know, I was down to my last $100. And I only had one month until rent was due. Yeah. Uh, and, and because I had the $100, um, I, I didn't have money for food, so I would just buy one Uh, what was that? A Subway sandwich. One Subway sandwich was $3, and I calculate- I could eat once. I was basically doing one meal a day. I was so hot at the end of that. Like, perfect six-pack. You know, I was just so lean. I c- you cannot imagine how hot I looked. Even I was surprised. I thought this, something good is still happening here. You know, like the silver lining. So I was basically eating one Subway sandwich a day. Wow. Uh, and then it's like, even that wasn't enough pain. I cannot explain how not even that made me change my ways. But then at one point during that same month, I was in Mexico at that point because I was living the laptop lifestyle, obviously. Why wouldn't I? I was, like, in Cancun. I, I didn't know where I was. It was somewhere on the planet. But then I get a call, and on the other side of the line is my aunt, which is my mother's, uh, sister, 'cause my mother couldn't speak on the phone because their mother just died, my grandmother, the, the person that raised me until I was, like, 10. Oh, wow. And here I was thinking I literally failed them. Because they invested so much time, so much effort, so much love into raising me, hoping that I would make something of myself one day, and here I am going bankrupt And I literally cried for like three days, and then after that I said, "Never again. I will always ask for money upfront for everything I do. If you are not willing to pay for my service, you do not deserve my service." Mm. That's it. Or you are not ready for my service. There's one of... If you have money and you're not willing to pay, you don't deserve it. If you don't have money, you just need to work with someone else that you can afford at the time. That is the reality of today, right? Mm. And so, um, it's, it, it's literally... I cannot ex- Yeah, I have shivers just thinking about that moment. I was so upset with myself th- that I let my family down. I let my mothers, my, you know, father, my everyone that loved me so that I would one day become something, you know, I would l- I, I let everyone down. That's how I was feeling. And then I said, "No, I will always ask for money upfront from now on." Right? And so that's what we do now. We always get paid upfront. Whenever I have conversations with people within industry that we operate in, they get paid, you know, after they do work and, you know, whatever. And like I know, I know that's industry standard. I'm perfectly aware. I just... I'm sorry, you're either gonna give me $10,000 right now or I'm not gonna move a finger. It's just like I'm not gonna risk it. Never again I am going to risk that, and if you're not, I, I don't need to prove myself. That's, that's an advantage, right? I already have my track record. All of my companies already have testimonials, video testimonials, references. I do not need to prove to you that I know how to do what I do. So you either believe, you know, a global business director, you know, telling you that I have made them who they are or, or you don't. You know it's just as simple as that. And if you don't believe them, you know, just nothing I can do can, can, can believe. You're just looking for a, uh, uh, a very cheap way, a very low risk way to get what you want, and at that point we're not good business partners, you know? Why should I invest in your business? I'm gonna take $10,000, put it into my own business. I have perfect ad funnels. You know, I've spent 10,000 on ad funnels, I make close to 200 grand. Why would I put that into growing your, your stuff? Pay your marketing, pay for your business development. Like we do, like for example Something I started doing a few years ago, we manage businesses for people. We literally go in and say, "You know what? I wanna retire, but I don't wanna sell. You just do this stuff. You handle this stuff." And then, you know, we just do it for them, um, and that's it. And it's, it's much easier for me than coaching. I stopped doing coaching a while ago because I would have a conversation with someone, say, "You need to do this, this, this." And like, "Yes, yes, yes, okay." And a week later we'd meet, "Okay, did you do this, this, this?" And they're like, "Oh, well, I didn't have time," or, "This didn't go as planned," or whatever. I'm like- That, that's a zero, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's a zero. Yes, exactly. Just let me do it. You know, instead of paying me to coach you and you not doing it, just pay my team. They will do it for you, and they'll do it faster and better than y- you are. And so I just transitioned from coaching to d- done for you. And so we just manage companies for people, and that's what we are doing within Elkridge now. Because before, I wouldn't get to share. I just helped someone exit. You know, they made 38 million euro last year, and I, I got close to nothing. Or s- sorry, I got nothing out of that, right? But I, I did get the, the, the service 'cause they were paying us for service, you know, to do the systems, the marketing, and so on and so forth. But I got zero out of the exit And so when Patrick showed up, you know, not like a knight in shining armor, that he is like, "Hey, Robert, I have this idea. You know, let's go into M&A. You know, we'll buy the businesses, we'll take a, a percentage, and then we'll grow them. And then when we sell, we get the percentage, right? So we make our money when we actually exit." So we are completely aligned in KPIs with our clients, or we call them clients, they're investors, you know, investing their money, um, because we take a percentage of the company, and then we only make real money when that sells or that gives dividends, one or the other, if we wanna keep for long. Mm-hmm. And, and today, Robert, you've got, um, I guess an empire almost of eight businesses that generate seven figures. So what does that look like? Are they all interconnected? Are they independent? Do you spend half an hour on this one, three hours on that one? Talk us through what that looks like. Um, the, the long story short on that is that I, I s- I, I don't really spend time on them. Uh, I o- I only spend time on them, like, when I think about them. Like, I get, like, an idea, you know, "Hey, maybe we should do this. Maybe we should do that." And then I check in and, you know... Uh, we've written a book on it, you know, it's right here, "Unshackled: The Seven Levels of Business Excellence." And we have, um, a chapter called "Inspecting Your Expectations." So you set the expectations with everyone, and then, you know, you empower them to do what they need to do. But then you just check in every so often, like, "Hey, well, how's the CRM look like?" You know, "How are finances looking like?" And so on. So I typically get a, a quarterly update, you know, like how was last quarter and what are we planning for this quarter, you know. And it's like a little presentation in an email, and I, I literally don't speak to people. And I like them. I don't wanna be, you know, I don't wanna sound rude. I like all of the people I work with. It's just either way, I need to hop on calls, you know, every day, you know, so the, the, the more I minimize it, you know, the, the more energy I have to do other stuff. Yeah. And so, um, to, to say blantly. I, I would say I have an engineering company, but I don't own it anymore. So, but let's say I'm managing an engineering company. We have a marketing company that I still own. Um, we have a, uh, a card game for couples, you know, that's won awards, uh, in the UK, uh, multiple times, um, helping... It's the world's first truly replayable card game for couples. And again, because I'm corny and I like board games, you know, and so on and so forth, um, we couldn't find the game with my wife to play, you know, that, a couples game. Um, we, we have all of the standards, you know, like, you know, Monopoly, Scrabble, Exploding Kittens, you know, whatever, you know, you would get online, uh, that's well-reviewed, but no, nothing for actual couples. So we just designed one, invented one and, you know- I like that uh, it's being played by people in like 160 something countries at this point. So we're, we're very happy with that. But that's a card game for couples. Then another thing I have is like an, uh, sort of like an Airbnb for luggage. It's called Luggage Storage. So, um, started with, you know, uh, a couple Um, locations in Manchester, um, that we used, like, as an MVP to see if, if it works. It was working. People were using them. You know, it was great. Uh, and now nowadays we have, I think, over 150 locations in, you know, like six countries or something like that- Yeah um, across I don't know how many dozens of, of cities. So, um, as you can tell, the marketing company, the card game for couples, you know, the Airbnb for luggage, like, uh, these have nothing to do with one another, and most of my businesses are like that. Um, I just invest, um, or, or when I say invest, it is typically time. People come to me and give me percentages of their companies, um, just to be there and help them grow. Um, but I, I, I kid you not, I say no almost all the time because it just-- just you need to pick and choose. You really do. Um, um, the best thing you can do is, is learn to focus, or one of the best things. Um, and I went into these companies for three main reasons, and th- that's my reasons for investing time all the time. Number one, does it make the world a better place? Um, so that's my first question. And for example, with the, with the card game for couples, it's obvious. You know, it helps, uh, couples have better conversations and, you know, connect and be more loving towards one another. That's easy. With the Airbnb for luggage, for example, um, I'm a tourist many times, at least twice a year, and I always find it such a pain to carry my bags with me, you know, um, here and there if you, you know, city hop and so on. So with that, it's amazing because you just leave it there. And we used it. We were in Barcelona, Barcelona last year, and we literally left it at a location near the Sagrada Familia. We just left it there, and we just went on for, like, seven hours without luggage, and we, we m- and it was just, like, what? Seven euro. It was nothing. Yeah. You know? And so, uh, it's very, very useful. Uh, to do. So it does make the world a better place. Uh, in that sense, you can enjoy, you know, your trip much, much more if you, you're not carrying, you know, 20 pounds on your back all the time. And then, um, um, that was number one. Number two is, do I like the people that I am about to engage in business with? Because if not, like, there's, there's no point, right? If I believe they're scammers or, you know, they're liars or they're, um, um... Their ego is a big thing. Um, I learned, you know, as, as I go through life, many people cannot, uh, get past their own ego. Uh, and I understand it's a vice like any other vice. Um, so I, I, I-- Do I like the people I'm working with? That's one. That's second. And then the third one is, can I make money? Like, is it worth my time? Because otherwise I can just... I can find things that have one and two and three, right? And at the end of the day, I have a fiduciary responsibility towards my wife, my children, my family to take care of them. So if something I'm engaged in that I'm spending hours in is not making money, then at that point it's like a game and it's a hobby. I'm taking time away from my daughter to just play a video game, right? If I'm not making money, that's basically what it is. Um, and so I'm, I'm not saying that nonprofits shouldn't be a thing, because they are, but even nonprofits should, you know, pay for their staff, you know, if they have full-time staff or, you know, people that are committed and so on. I perfectly get this, the state of volunteers. I, uh, have pro bono work. 10% of all of my time every year is dedicated as pro bono work, and I, you know, help a lot of entities that, um, I'm en-engaged with for decades at some point, you know. One of them is actually, like, about two decades old that I'm engaged with, um, and I keep adding value to. Um, and then, you know, as I learn about nonprofits, you know, uh, that I like, I help them. But that's a specific category in my brain. When I go into business, you know, then it, it either makes money or it doesn't. It's either a one or a zero, right? So it has to be one in all these three, and that's how I choose, you know, what to do. But the businesses themselves, they have nothing to do with one another. The Business Game is proud to partner with HighLevel, the all-in-one CRM and marketing platform built for growing businesses. With CRM funnel, website, and course builders, marketing automations, email builders, and so much more, HighLevel Software will drive your customer retention and your profits through the stratosphere. And HighLevel is fully white label, which means you can brand the platform and mobile app with your logo and company colors, and then resell it to your customers for a monthly subscription. Ready to go HighLevel? Click on the link below to begin your 14-day free trial All right. Speaking of making money- Mm you, uh, just recently exited from an AI venture with an eight-figure buyout. Yeah. Well done. Congratulations. Awesome. That's, that's incredible. How did you prepare for that exit? Uh, okay. So, um, recently, it was a couple years ago, I wanna be clear, uh, so this is, uh, already, um, uh, almost old news, but it's, it's definitely Something that takes you by surprise if you've never done it before. Because the moment you learn so much in business and you apply all of your lessons from day one, you're basically preparing for an exit every time you start a new venture from the very first s-step, because you're thinking of marketing systems that can scale. You're thinking of business systems that can scale. You're thinking of SOPs. You're thinking of hiring decisions that are long term, you know, not just to fill a patch or fill a current need. And so all of these decisions are being made on a day to day. So by the time I had my AI venture, I was already 12 years into entrepreneurship, something like that, right? And, um, we were literally preparing by just doing what we do. Mm. And then there-- it wasn't a, a thing like let's pr- let's build this to prepare for an exit. No. Let, let's have... I-is, is the marketing... Does marketing have an ROI or not? If it does not, let's not run it. You know, like why are we spending $100 a lead and making 60? Makes no sense. We're either spending 60 to make 100, if we have a profit margin that covers that, or, or we're not, right? Um, we're, we, we're just, um... Someone just came to us, which has the l-largest child-friendly, um, what's it called? Like a forest reservation or zoo, you know, like w-with animals. It's like, it's huge. And, um, they want us to, to handle everything in terms of ops and, you know, marketing and so on and so forth. It's very difficult to do on a, um, $15 entry fee. Mm. It's so difficult. Right? Like it's just completely different game. How, how do you scale? You know, give m- when I sell my stuff, it's six figures. You know, one deal for me is six figures. I can pay literally $50,000 in marketing and have a very significant profit after I've sold my service, right? Because I make six figures with every n-new client, right? And so in that case, I can, I can spend, uh, maybe, whatever, $7 a client, right? To, to make money on that. And so it becomes incredibly difficult. The math doesn't work. Um, that's why I literally give almost no attention to the, to the, um, card game for couples. I'm basically letting it grow organically because I find that I am not willing To have a conversation with someone about a $15 product. You either want the product or you don't. Just don't waste my time. Don't ask question. It, it's all there. You have reviews, you have a co- product description, you have everything there. Why are you s- wasting people's time asking so many questions? Do you not understand the value? Like, because a- anyone is worth at least $5 an hour, at least, like whatever, right? And in our world, they're like 15, 20, $50 an hour, right? Yeah. And so you're, you're spending someone's time, you know, to answer emails and calls or whatever, and you're paying them $20 an hour. So if you have just one call for a product, you're already not making any money on it, right? So like, just, just build a system that sells it automatically and just let it, let it slide. Yeah. If we ever wanna be, uh, uh, what's it called? Um, philanthropic, we will put money into that company, into growing that company. But we are not making money, you know, because I'm, I'm not in the game of small margin businesses. Um, we can do it, and I can. I've made that successful, but it's not worth... Like, when you have... I'm sure you guys know the Pareto principle, the 80/20. Like, where what you're spending 20% of your time makes 80% of your, your money. And when you have eight businesses and they're making so much money, you're like, "Which one of these do I actually focus on?" You're gonna focus on the one where you can spend $10,000 and make 200 grand. That's the one you're gonna focus on, right? And it's just simple math. Again, it's like n- has nothing to do... I like this business more than the other ones, uh, as like in the positive that it can bring to the world. Mm-hmm. But at the same time, I literally need to see it as a non-profit because it, it's like that's how I dedicate time to it. You know? Like, I, I'm helping couples, you know, just have better relationships at this point, right? And I'm not making too much money on it. So that's that, and then, um, co- coming, coming back to, you know, the, the question. It's It, it's like you by default at one point learn or get to a specific standard of business that you're not willing to make compromises on. And so when we have already reached that standard before we had the AI venture, and so when we had the AI venture, everything was just in place. That's right. We sold, we exited that company like we built the, we built it for six months or something like that. Then we launched, and by the end of month three it was sold, right? It was literally sold. So, so we didn't have time to prepare. We tell people like give yourself at least one to two years to prepare for an exit. The reason why we say that is because we know their ops are in shambles, we know their, their, uh, uh, marketing is like lackluster. We know that no one has any idea what their P&L and balance sheet looks like. Like you talk to, you talk to these owners like, "Okay, show me your P&L." It's like, "Isn't that what my accountant does?" I'm like, "Yeah, and you should look at that every month." Yes. You should know- Yeah what goes in and out, you know, like the line item, the, the like what, what's the $70? "Oh, that was just coffee." "$70 of coffee? How much do you drink?" He's said, "Well, no, like we, I met someone," and so on. And like, "Did business come out of it?" "No." "Well, then it's a wasted expense. I'm sorry. It's like you just spend $5 on a coffee next time. By the way, order it. Don't spend money on gas as well going there." You know, it's like these conversations, you know, it's just like weird, like the, the amount of inefficiencies in companies, it's, it's staggering. So that's why we tell them, "Give yourself a year. Like d- don't, don't be rough with yourself, right? You'll need a year to prepare." But we don't prepare. Like w- if someone wants to buy Elkridge right now as an, as a boutique M&A firm that does what we do, they literally, they have to do almost nothing. They, they just buy it, like there you go. And I only had like six, seven months to, to do what I do, right? But we have key people in every area. Marketing is being done, you know, uh, funnels are being done, tech is being done. You know, the, uh, valuing companies is being done. You know, uh, acquiring them is being... Like everything is being done, right? Patrick was upfront with me like a few weeks ago, uh, because we like we have a good relationship, man. He's like, "Robert, please don't take this the wrong way-" But I don't know what to do. Like, I have nothing to do. I don't know what to do. It's like, congratulations, you're, now you're an actual business owner. This is what it feels like. Like, you need to give yourself work if you want to do something. But that feeling of I don't actually need to do something, that is where everyone needs to get to at one point. Uh, and so that's, that's how we prepare in quotes. But preparation for us is just day-to-day business at this point. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So I'd love to get into how you manage, um, scaling systems across- Mm dozens of acquisitions per year. Sounds like a massive challenge, and you don't seem like you stress too much. No. So how do you navigate that? Ones and zeros, right? Uh, yes, that's right. Yeah. It's yes or no. Ones and zeros. Yes. Um, yeah, so how do you navigate that? Um, so one, one thing I'm gonna tell you with the ones and zeros that's funny is life is ones and zeros. Everything in life is math, and I can explain it in, in calculus. I can easily explain it to anyone. People are gray. They are so gray. It's gray. Like, "Do I do this, or do I do that?" I'm like, "Which one do you want to do more?" "I want to do both of them equally." "Okay. Which one are you more competent in?" "Well, I feel I'm equally competent in both of these." "Okay. Then do this." And they're like, "Well, how did you choose?" "Easy. You do this." "Like but, but how, how did you ch-?" "You don't need to worry your little head about it. Just do this." "Do this and get back to me in a year, and let me know if you like that." "And and, what if, what if I don't?" "I'll go back to you. I say, 'Okay, do the other thing now.'" If you're literally at odds, like you- like it's equal, two decisions are completely equal, just gut feeling, just do whatever you wanna do because at that point you have crunched all of the numbers, and it, it comes down as one and one. Just do the one. Yeah. As long as you do a one, you will never regret life. Guys, anyone listening, please just do ones your entire life. You know? Do I like this person or, or do I not like them? If I don't like them, just get them out of your life. If I do like them, keep them in your life. Yeah. Or if you, you want to like them because they're like your mother, you know, or whatever, then find a way to make it one, you know, or something. I don't know. Just like do something. Stop having the conversation that you know pisses them off. It's so easy. Just don't do it anymore. You know? Just do something else, right? They're not gonna change. They literally made you. They quite literally birthed you, so you're not gonna, you're not gonna run their life. As far as they're concerned, you're like a two-year-old toddler that they needed to teach everything to. You know? Like, you're not gonna go to them and say, "Mom, you really should stop eating sugar." "I've been eating sugar 20 years before you existed, my son." You know? It's like, "And I'm still here, you know, and, and I have less pain than you do, so..." You know? Yeah. And, and so these types of conversations just, just don't. You know? Just let them live life. They, they know what they need to do and they... not, not do. But, but that's, that's how you do it. When it's business decisions, if both of the things are a one, if both are ones, then just do the one. You're right. If it's a one, then you were right, and the other one might have been a one. Okay, you would have been right in that situation as well. Just do one. Do one of the ones. Just do the one. Okay, uh, so but people are great, right, in that sense. They, you know, peop-people tell me they-- it's, "Robert, it's a chicken and egg situation." It's like that's made up. First was the egg. I can tell you now, there were, there were amoeba, and then there were lizards, and then eventually there were chickens. So there were eggs before there were chickens, end of story. That's it. There's, there's no chicken and egg situation. At one point, evolution made one of those eggs come out biologically a chicken. That's it. But it, th-they hatched out of an egg. So I can tell you it's, it's a-- this is the path, right? That's it, end of story. It's not the chicken and egg situation. It's just you're making it complicated in your own brain. So, um, this is, this is how I, I look at stuff, right? So if someone says to me, like, we have a disgruntled client in a cl- in a, in one of the, uh, places where, where we, we do operations. Like, okay, what made them become disgruntled? And, you know, it's like, well, they, they emailed us at, you know, five AM our time, local time, and they were pissed why did we take four hours to reply. It's okay. We failed to set the expectations. We failed to set time zone expectations. What do you want me to say? Could you not figure that out for yourself? Right? I literally have these conversations with people because I empower them to figure out life. You know, like, why are you bringing this to me? Well, how did this reach the highest level in the org chart? That's what I ask my-- like how did this reach me, right? Because someone wasn't empowered to think. They were scared to think, uh, for themselves and to deal with the situation for themselves. So that's why we add, um... There's an amazing book called The One Minute Manager, highly recommend it. Ken Blanchard wrote it. He basically teaches you how to manage in one minute, you know, a day. Wow. And it's, it's a very short book. Everyone should read it. Um, and, you know, he, he, he basically says the, the concept is very simple: If it's something you could have figured out, you should have figured it out and dealt with it That's the entire book in one sentence. Yeah. Right? And so you need to set up systems to make this the standard across all of your organizations, right? We were talking with Lisa earlier. Lisa could by herself manage an entire studio. She does not need guidance at this point probably, right? She could just manage it. Yeah. Okay, perfect. Like, don't come to me with stuff. You just deal with that stuff, right? If something is, oh my God, burning, someone's gonna sue us because we said something we shouldn't have, right? We called them whatever. I don't-- I'm not gonna say anything on the show, but we called them something and we shouldn't have. Okay, now what are we gonna do, right? Because this is a new thing, new thing that people are not competent with or they're very scared of. You, you need to, you know, be very careful with, right? Like, so you deal with it, but you deal with it properly, and then once you deal with it once, you, you make it an SOP, and you make it part of contracts, and you make it part of training, and so on and so forth, so you never deal with it again. So across all of these different countries and cultures and, and so on, you just learn to set expectations better. I'm gonna give you just one funny story on this. We have business in Mexico, and I don't know if you know, but in Mexico, everyone's late all the time- to almost everything, right? And, and so I run my brain, again, on ones and zeros, and so whenever someone's late, it's like, "There was traffic." Okay, was there traffic yesterday? Was there traffic last year? Was there traffic two years ago? "Well, yes, Robert." And like, "Okay, and can we both agree that you failed at the, at, at, at remembering that there is traffic in the city that you've been living in for the past 20 years, right?" And so these are the level of con- because I, I just-- It-- There was traffic? That was-- That's why you were 40 minutes late to a one-hour meeting? Serious- That's what you're gonna tell me, that there was traffic? You know, I just, I don't deal with that. I'm sorry. It's just like I'm, I, I'm at a level in which I don't need to put up with that stuff. Even when I wasn't at my level, I wasn't taking this, right? And so I let-- And I ask them, "Okay, have you ever flown with a, with an airplane?" Like, "Yes." "How, about how many times?" "Um, Robert, at least a dozen times." "Okay, well, did you ever miss one?" "Oh, no, I didn't." "Okay, so you can be on time- if you really want to. You can be on time. You just decided that our conversation today wasn't im-important enough for you to be here on time." "Oh, Robert, you're exaggerating." "No, I'm not exaggerating You need to remember I- we s- we booked a time from 4:00 to 5:00. I'm leaving in 20 minutes. I've been waiting for you for 40. And you only need to have this conversation once, guys. Yeah. I kid you... Just once, right? And so, and I, I didn't want to be rude to pe- because they consider it rude. In their culture, it's normal to be late, uh, right? So as far as I was concerned, I was... I started telling people after a few of these conversations, "I'm going to be in this restaurant between 2:00 PM and 3:00 PM. I am going to effectively leave at 3:00 because I have somewhere else to be. The sooner you arrive, the more we get to speak. And so if you're man- if you manage to be there by 2:00, we'll have a full hour. I probably won't be there before 2:00, but at about 2:00 I'll be there and I'll leave at 3:00. If you'll be there between 2:00 to 3:00, we'll have a full hour. If you won't, then I'm just respectfully, I will need to leave at 3:00." Guess what? Everyone was there at 2:00. Everyone, every time. And I would... And e- e- I wouldn't even explain. It, it was the message I would send to people, right? It was just, I wrote it once, an SOP. Again, this is how I function. You know, my, my wife is like, "How can you be so geeky?" I was like, "This is just... I'm sorry." It's just like I- if I have a problem in life, I either fix it or I tolerate it. I never complain about it, right? You either fix it or tolerate it, right? And so, and that's it. And so I just fix stuff because I don't like compromises. So I just fix things in, in life, um, and business is one of, one of those. So that's how we do. Hopefully, that answers your question. Yeah. Uh, it's very high level, but this high level mentality is w- actually is making everything, you know, stick together and work. Absolutely. That's great. Yeah. Robert, I'm gonna ask you about fear, which is probably not so much a black and white kind of thing because the stakes are high. You know, y- we're talking, you know, the businesses, you've got seven figures, eight figures, et cetera. There's a lot riding on the deals- Yeah going through and all of those sorts of things. Bigger the business- Yeah bigger the responsibility- Yeah potentially the bigger the fear. How do you and your business partner deal with fear or do you not even feel it? Yeah. That's a, that's a very, very good question. Um- One thing, um, stakes being high, interestingly enough, does not change the level of stress or, or things like that, or most times doesn't. Because someone that has just a job but has children and, and the livelihood of their children depends on that $2,000 a month job, oh my God, the level of stress and anxiety of, you know, keeping the job, not failing, not whatever, you know, having food to put on the table, you know, having to work side gigs to, to afford a, a, a, a computer for your children or education or what. Oh my God, the level of stress. Mm. Horrible. Mm. Horrible, right? Literally the same as me running a $10 million business. It does not change. It's weird, but it doesn't change. 90 something percent, or I think most people would say six- uh, 85% of our fears and stresses are self-made. Mm. They're, they're like we're... And, and, and it has allowed us to survive. You know, the lion that can eat you, the whatever. Like, you hear a sound like, "What was that?" Yeah. You know? I hope it's not gonna eat me. That, that's like, like the, our entire evolutionary thing baked into the brain. So that's why you remember earlier I was saying that people are gray. That's why people are... You cannot control this. I have days when I literally cry And I on-- like up until like maybe a couple years ago, I was giving myself a hard time. Like I'm a, I'm a deca-millionaire. You know, I, I have all of this going for me, you know? I'm fine, you know? I have a family. I have friends. Like why am I crying? Why am I so sad? Like why am I so scared? What's wrong? Emotions. It just like it creeps up. It bubbles up, you know, and you like you just deal with it. You know, and, and I can have no better way of saying it. And by the way, women go through this at a completely different level. It's crazy. You know, so sometimes my wife yells at me. I can't- And then I'm in shock for like a few seconds. I'm like, "What's this? Like what, what happened?" And like I'm sorry, like it just... I swear, I swear this happened yesterday. I told her something, and then she started crying, and I was so confused. Like what did I do? What did I s- like me especially being autistic, imagine, and being like what, what led to this outcome? And then, you know, now I know in, in most cases it has zero to do with me. There's some internal, you know, emotional thing, and I was just the trigger. And I, it just like-- and now I don't even insist because before I would like, "Tell me," like, "Why are you crying? What's going on?" Blah, blah, blah. And, and we just had the conversation. I, I, I just let her cry, whatever, you know, hugged her. "I'm sorry. It's fine. It's okay." And then like maybe 15 minutes later she tells me what it was, and I was literally thinking about that the other day. But I, I, I'm a real man, so I just cry inside. Um, but, but, but I literally went through that emotional turmoil like a couple days ago. I just didn't tell her because, you know... I don't know. I think we're programmed. Like when you're young, you know, and you're raised as a guy, you know, you don't think about this stuff, but we are raised differently. You know, guys, like boys and girls, we're raised differently, and you have nothing... Like you cannot change it because you're young. Like you can't tell your parents, "Treat me equally." You know, like you can't have that conversation with them. You know? You're like you fall as a guy. You know, your father's like, "Pick yourself back up. What's wrong with you? Come on. Let's just go." Right? You fall as a daughter, like, "Oh my gosh, did you hurt yourself? Let me kiss you. Let me whatever," you know? I sw- it's just like you, you can't even control it, you know? It's just like intrinsically it comes in like that. And so you're lit- like I had those same feelings. They were, they were probably just as strong as she had them a couple days ago, you know? I just didn't tell her about it. You know, I was just dealing with it in my own way, and then now she is crying about it, right? So, um, same things, right? And, and you, you deal with these things as they come. Mm. The best thing, the best advice I can give people when the fear comes, um, to do the work because the fear will be there. There's no amount of physic- of, like, psychological work you can do. At least I, I have not reached that level. Yes. Maybe there are some people that have reached nirvana, you know? So, like some yogis, whatever. Yeah. But those yogis are not running my businesses. Right? And so it's just like, oh yeah, you c- you're a monk and y- you, you, you have nothing bad, no bad thought. Okay, but if I would go in the desert and, and speak to no one for 40, I would probably feel the same way, or in the mountains somewhere or whatever. Yeah. You know? I would probably... But you try living my life as a monk, because I'd, I, I, I... Something tells me that will be off, because we are biologically designed to be fearful. Yeah. And so when I have 100 fear triggers every single day, right? A- and I need to see, okay, is that an actual lion? Like, is it gonna eat half of my wealth? Or, or is it just, like, something, like, I just need to deal with and just move on? So y- the thing I can tell people, just do the work. Because if you can do the work through fear, have the conversation in spite of the fear, you know, send the proposal in spite of the fear, you know, send the email in spite of... If you can work in spite of, your life will be so much better. Yeah. Totally. So much better. Agree. Because we all have bad days. Yep. And if you do productive things on bad days, don't, don't make decisions. Yeah. Don't, don't yell at your spouse or your friends or whatever. Just keep internally... I mean, don't keep internally as in, you know, um, keep internally as in realize, become self-aware that you are snappy today or you, something, and then, then just interface with people less and, and tell them, "I'm, I'm having an off day today, so I might speak less, but I hear you perfectly. And so just let me know what you need me for, and I will help you as much as I can." Yeah. That's it. Communication. That's, that's, that's advice I can give people. Yeah. Yeah. It's a really interesting term too, in spite of, you know? Yeah. Do it in spite of, do it in spite, you know? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a really good leverage point there for, for people. Yes. Yeah, 'cause I think a lot of people sort of like what you've said is they're hoping that the fear is just gonna go away, or if the fear is there, then I'm not supposed to do it. But it's gonna always exist. It's about, yeah, coming back into the self and- Yeah um, moving forward. So- Mm on that, if someone... Let's say someone was building a business similar to Elkridge, um, but they're two, three years behind where you are now- Um, and they asked you for a shortcut or a cheat code. Everybody likes a cheat code. Um- Right. Yes. Yeah. To get to where you are now, what would you tell them? Easy. Get a partner. Get a partner. Work with someone. Yeah. Don't do it yourself, always. Wow. I- it's one of my rules. I- it's not part of the three, because by default, notice do, uh, the number two is, do I like the people that I'm engaged with? Yeah. But that also masks another rule that I have. I never go into business alone. Hmm. I, I know myself. I'm an introvert. I like numbers. I don't like speaking to people, so I'm not gonna do well. Hmm. I, I dunno if you guys ever played video games or if anyone listening played video games, but I used to. You know, I'm that generation that played video games. And so there are video games that I played, for example, um, there was Dota or League of Legends or Warcraft or whatever, but these were team-based games. So I would always thrive being the support character, being the tank or the healer or, you know, someone that would help the team succeed somehow. Not being the main guy, because I didn't like being the main guy. Number one, I don't like the fame. You know, like, "Hey, this is, you know, the main guy," blah, blah, blah. I don't like that. But then number two, nothing makes me happier than making my team succeed. It's so weird. Uh, this has been my entire life. My entire life I've, I've been like that. I've been like a, a, a, a jus- a u- um, justice guy, right? Just like, because I was born Hungarian in Romania, and anyone looking at the history, you know, it's, it's very, uh, convoluted. You know, they, they weren't friends not, not so long ago. Wow. And, and so I was bullied my entire childhood, and I had no problem. I would just get in fights. My mom would just, you know, get, uh, called in, in very often. So I, I developed very thick skin. But then that I never allowed other people to be bullied, 'cause I knew how that felt. Mm-hmm. And so when o- someone else would be bullied, I would just be so much stronger. I would just literally go in and start to fight. Yeah. And so that's why... 'Cause no one would call my mom if I would get in a fight because I was being bullied. It was obvious even for adults, you know, like they, you know, he was defending himself. Yeah. But when someone else was being bullied, I would go in and literally pick a fight, you know, with the guy bigger or what. I didn't, I didn't care. I would not l- I had a, an eight-year older brother. I was used to fighting someone literally- twice my size, you know? You had practice. So no one at school could have any chance. You know, like, you literally had to be an adult to pick a fight with me at that point. I was so strong. No one my age could beat me, and I didn't know how. You know, it was, it was-- And I would never use it against, you know, someone, but I would just, you know, do, do it in, in justice sense. And so even when I started playing video games, I would always love to be the protector, to be the healer, to be the tank. Uh, the tank is a term for the people that take the punches whilst everyone else is doing what they need to do. The tank is their front line, you know, you know, getting all of the blows, you know, and, and they're supporting the team. Uh, and the healer is basically healing everyone up whilst, again, they're doing. So those are the roles I enjoyed most. I never liked being something else, um, or the type of roles, and I'm the same in business. So I get the I, I get, uh, partners that are the main guys, right? Uh, and that want to be the face of the business and want to run the business, and so on and so forth. You know, the... And I tell them, "It... There will be a time if you work with me where you don't need to do anything. And at that point, strategically, we, we will agree what do you want to spend your time on. If your answer will be, 'You know what, Robert? I just wanna retire. You know, I just wanna move on and do nothing,' that's fine. That's perfectly acceptable. That's why we're in business to begin with, right? To build wealth and freedom. But then if you don't want that and you wanna do stuff, we'll just agree on what you wanna do, and you'll, you'll just do that stuff, whatever, you know, gives you energy." Um, and so if you are like me, you find a Patrick. Yeah. If you're someone like Patrick, you find someone like me. Yeah. Right? That's- Yeah that's basically what you do. Yeah. So get a partner. Very difficult. One of the most difficult things to choose and to keep a good partner. It's almost the same as marriage. I see it as a marriage. Um, I am very loyal to people, to, to a fault, and I do not want to change that fault. Like, uh, if you decide to marry me, you know, you need to do very, very bad things for, for me to get out of that. Really very bad thing. Yeah, like, you literally need to commit murder intentionally, uh, several times maybe, you know? So, so, so that we, we, we break that up. But otherwise, you know, very few things, um, you can do to, um... For me, because I make a promise, and that promise, good or bad, I'm gonna be here. And so I reserve the right to partner with people only if they're very, very ethical, very competent, et cetera. Yeah. Wow. That's great. Fantastic. Yeah, might be time for quick-fire questions. Huh? I think so. All right. Robert, what we like to do to get to know the person behind the microphone is to ask them 10 questions. We'll fire them at you really quickly, and we'll get you to answer them in a sentence or less. So you ready to go, Robert? Yes. All right. Colleen, are you ready to go? I am. All right. Would you like to go first- Sure or should I go? I will take it. All right. A-OK. All right. Okay. So office or work from home? Work from home. What was your first job? Um, um, working the land on a farm- Mm-hmm when I was, like, five. Oh, I love that. Yeah. Uh, your go-to productivity hack? Uh, oh, there were so many. Wait. Um, uh- I guess it's the Pareto principle. If, if it need not be done, don't do it at all. You know, just do the most important stuff. Uh, oh, I actually wrote a book on it. Yes, uh, the, the IVD method is basically define your top priority and just do that until it's done, and then go to number two. Ooh, I like that. Mm-hmm. Are you an Android guy or an iPhone guy? Ah, Android all the way. I'm an engineer. Okay. What's your coffee order? I don't drink coffee. I drink, uh, tea with- uh, without coffee. Okay. If you weren't doing what you do now, what career would you choose? I would be a writer. I love writing. Ooh. The best investment you've ever made? Um, buying a, um, very good car for my mother. Um, because literally a year after I bought her car, she was in an accident. Uh, the other car got completely totaled. Um, even though they hit my mom, but because my h- mom had a brand new five out of five security car, nothing happened to her. Oh, wow. I almost cry about it to this day. It was one of the best investments I've ever made, and anyone listening to this, buy a five out of five security car. Literally, do not... You know, you never know when an accident happens. Be ready. Wow. Mm. There you go. Yeah. Wow, that's a- Mm. I feel- heartfelt one. Yeah. Are you an early riser or a night owl? I have children, so it doesn't matter. Uh, one piece of tech that you couldn't live without I would say at this point is technology itself. Um, but you know, it's, uh, probably my laptop. Mm. Okay. Now, other than what you've mentioned so far in the episode, what's your book or podcast recommendation? One of the books that have, has left the most positive impact on my life was, uh, The Success Principles from Jack Canfield. I recommend it to basically everyone. Very basic, super basic book. Incredibly basic. Do the basics, literally. Just do the basics. Wow. Okay. Love that. Yeah. All right. Excited- Yeah to get into that one. Mm. Okay. And final question: If business truly is a game, Robert Indires, what's your definition of winning? Um, my definition personally- Mm of, of winning, um That the business does not need me or any one particular individual at all for its own success. It would be, I recommend the same definition in parenting. If your children end up becoming dependent on you, you have not done a good job. I am sorry. Yeah. You need to help them become independent. So b- owning business is the same as parenting. You want your business to become self-sufficient, self-sustainable in every way, and that is the victory. Uh, if you manage to do that, you know, that you're, you, you've won at business, basically. You can do it over and over, but you, if you do it once, you've won. Yes. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Fantastic. Yeah. That's great. Yeah, Robert, thank you so much for your time today. It's been a, a fascinating discussion. So great. And there's so many notes you dropped, and, um- Thank you so much the ones and the zeros, right? That's- I know. I'm gonna- Yeah. Yeah I'm gonna hear your voice now- Yeah. Absolutely when I'm, like, deliberating between choices. Yeah. Just pick one. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And, and in smart offer. Yes, that's right. Yes. Yeah. So thank you so much. Yeah. So Robert, where can we find you online, you and your business online? So anyone that, uh, Googles Elkridge Advisors, they're gonna find us. We do very good SEO, very good marketing. You cannot miss us. Just Google my name. I have 33,000, uh, uh, uh, things, you know, that come up on Google. Um, and so anyone just Googling my name or Elkridge Advisors can find us. We do obviously have elkridgeadvisors.com, you know, if, if they wanna work with us, you know. Uh, anyone listening to the podcast, if they reach out to me personally or to Elkridge, uh, if they mention The Business Game podcast, uh, I will give them a 10% discount. Uh, and I promise to answer their email personally. Wow. Wow. Thank you so much. Fantastic. That's so kind. Thank you. Thank you, Robert. Um, I hope our listeners take you up on that. Absolutely. I think that's a wonderful offer. Wow. Thank you. Yeah. All right. Of course. So that's all we've got time for. If you've enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe to The Business Game and check out the playlist for the level of business you're currently playing. Because every founder is somewhere on the game board from zero all the way to $200 billion. Choose your level, and we'll see you next time.